Carol Ross Joynt - Author, Interviewer, and Producer

Carol Ross Joynt recalls advice she received early on in her career from Merriman Smith –

I remember to this day some advice he gave me that has always served me well. He said, “When you cover Washington, you’re going to get invited to a lot of parties. At the parties are going to be the people you’re covering. Just remember they’re not your friends.” He said, “You’re better off not going to the parties, but always remember the … people you’re covering are not your friends.”

Carol Ross Joynt, Author, TV Interviewer , and Producer

A Ockershausen: This Andy Ockershausen. This is Our Town. I am so delighted today to introduce you to a person new to my show, new to WMAL, as far as I know. This is still WMAL. Carol Joynt, welcome. Carol is the author, producer, and Emmy winning producer of Innocent Spouse, a story about her own life experience, guest wrangler, Janice added that, producer at MSNBC and Hardball, host of the Q&A Café, magazine writer, ex-saloon owner, proud mom. This is a great thing, a breast cancer survivor. She’s a real fighter, a woman who doesn’t like surprises. Welcome to Our Town, Carol Joynt.
Carol Ross Joynt: Thank you. Yes. Carol Joynt. Here I am.
A Ockershausen: Carol Ross is not from Washington. You were not born here.

From Denver to Our Town

Carol Ross Joynt: Carol Ross was born in Denver, I’m happy to say. I was born in the Rocky Mountain state.
A Ockershausen: Oh my.
Carol Ross Joynt: I was a military brat, then, we moved many other places and then ultimately ended up here, because my father …
A Ockershausen: Army?
Carol Ross Joynt: He came here to be at the Pentagon with the Air Force, then retired and went to George Washington University, where he was the Assistant Dean of the School of Business. Then, he went out to Warrenton, Virginia and ran a think tank called Airlie House. I parted ways with them amicably, but when they moved to …
A Ockershausen: … He is your father.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. I graduated from high school, and they moved to rural Virginia. I said, “I’m heading into the city.” That’s what I did.
A Ockershausen: You had been in Colorado up until then?
Carol Ross Joynt: No. We’d been …
A Ockershausen:… You traveled with the Air Force.

Mount Vernon, VA

Carol Ross Joynt: I’d spent my teenage years growing up by Mount Vernon, since it was so close to our house. These were the times before homeland security. My friends and I, when Mount Vernon would close in the evening, we’d just jump the fence and have the coolest time, respectful, cool time, just wandering around George Washington’s Estate.
Janice Ockershausen: Sonny Jurgensen and his wife, Margo …
Carol Ross Joynt: … were doing the same thing?
Janice Ockershausen: They lived right next door.
A Ockershausen: They got a key. Somebody gave them a key. They had a lock on that fence.
Carol Ross Joynt: As it should be …
A Ockershausen: … They could walk right in.
Carol Ross Joynt: … if you’re Sonny Jurgensen. May I just say, that it’s such a thrill to be here. I’m just daunted by the company of the other guests, Sonny being one of them.
A Ockershausen: Yes. Of course.
Carol Ross Joynt: I don’t know what I’m doing here.
A Ockershausen: His wife maybe, but not him. Don’t be…
Carol Ross Joynt: Anyway …
A Ockershausen: … They had a key. They could go in. I went on the grounds with them a few times. Was your dad a pilot? Was he a flyer?

Carol’s Dad’s Military Service

Carol Ross Joynt: He was a pilot in World War II. He dropped paratroopers on Normandy Beach …
A Ockershausen: Wow.
Carol Ross Joynt: … On D Day.
A Ockershausen: A multiple-engine pilot too.
Carol Ross Joynt: He was from Minnesota. He was from Thief River Falls, Minnesota.
A Ockershausen: Did he go to the Air Force Aca … That was before the Air Force Academy.
Carol Ross Joynt: Rainy Lake, was …
A Ockershausen: … The Air Force Academy was in …
Carol Ross Joynt: … He did …
A Ockershausen: … Denver …
Carol Ross Joynt: … Yes. He went to the Air …
A Ockershausen: Remember that?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: Lowry Air Force Base …
Carol Ross Joynt: … After the war …
A Ockershausen: Yes.
Carol Ross Joynt: After the war, he went to the Air Force Academy. That’s how I happened to be born at Fitzsimons Army Hospital …
A Ockershausen: Wow.

Carol Ross Joynt Meets John Kerry Covering Vietnam Veterans Against the War

Carol Ross Joynt: … the same year, not the same night, as John Kerry. We were both … Who I’ve known a long time …
A Ockershausen: … He was born in Massachusetts.
Carol Ross Joynt: He was born at Fitzsimons Hospital in Boulder, Colorado.
A Ockershausen: You’re kidding?
Carol Ross Joynt: No. We were both born at the same hospital. We discussed this.
A Ockershausen: He wasn’t in the military then.
Carol Ross Joynt: No.
A Ockershausen: He’d been in the Navy …
Carol Ross Joynt: We didn’t get to know each other there …
A Ockershausen: … later.
Carol Ross Joynt: Actually, I first met him when he was leading the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. I was covering all that …
A Ockershausen: … I remember that.
Carol Ross Joynt: … through United Press International. Kerry and I …
A Ockershausen: … Were you with CBS then?

United Press International (UPI) to Time Magazine – Merriman Smith and Helen Thomas

Carol Ross Joynt: No. I was with UPI, a young reporter, and got to know Kerry because I was writing that story. I covered the anti-war movement for UPI. My by-line was all over what in those days they called the ‘A-wire’, which got my by-line on front pages all over the country, which was very exciting. That got the attention of Time magazine, of Hugh Sidey who was the bureau chief at …
A Ockershausen: … I remember Hugh Sidey …
Carol Ross Joynt: … Time magazine. Hugh brought me in as a stringer because he said they didn’t have anybody who was covering the anti-war movement. He needed a young person …
A Ockershausen: … I liked Hugh …
Carol Ross Joynt: … and I qualified.
A Ockershausen: Did you work for Merriman Smith, the world famous writer and editor, …
Carol Ross Joynt: … Yes …
A Ockershausen: … Correct?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. When I started at UPI, I started entry-level is what they called dictationist. I took the dictation for Smitty and for Helen Thomas and got the benefit of hanging out with them. Not socially, but Smitty would come in at the end of the day and hang out at the desk. Maybe it would be the guy in the slot and me and a copy editor or re-write man, then Smitty just shooting the breeze, giving me advise, telling me things …
A Ockershausen: … And you soaked it up, of course …
Carol Ross Joynt: I soaked up every word of it. I remember to this day some advice he gave me that has always served me well. He said, “When you cover Washington, you’re going to get invited to a lot of parties. At the parties are going to be the people you’re covering. Just remember they’re not your friends.” He said, “You’re better off not going to the parties, but always remember the …
A Ockershausen: … That’s great advice …
Carol Ross Joynt: … people you’re covering are not your friends.” I was later told that about lawyers too, when they entered my life in a big way. Anyway, Smitty gave me that advice… Smitty died too soon when I was there. I was still there when he committed suicide. I was 18 or 19, and I’d never experienced anything like that of somebody I knew. I later became very good friends with his son.
Helen Thomas would … We didn’t have fax machines then. We didn’t have any of the tech … When there was a briefing at the White House, … If Kissinger was having a background briefing, or Nixon, or whatever, I would have to run over to the White House, from the Press Building, get the text of the remarks, and run it back to the desk so they could get the …
A Ockershausen: … Where was your office?
Carol Ross Joynt: Our office was in the Press building …
A Ockershausen: … Press building where everybody was …
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. Third floor. Helen kind of liked me. She knew that I wanted to do this, so whenever she could, she’d say, “I need Carol over here.” She’d take me to things like when Nixon would have reporters into his little hideaway office, in the then called just the EOB, she’d take me with her. Or when Pat Nixon did a tour of Christmas decorations, she’d take me with her. Or if somebody was going to have a briefing that was pretty hot, she’d have me with her. She’d said needed me there to get notes back to the desk. This was an eye-opener for me.
A Ockershausen: What an opportunity to soak up knowledge, though. You’re getting knowledge …

Old White House Press Room

Carol Ross Joynt: Oh my God. Yes. Also, I’m so old that when I first went over to the White House, it was the old Press Room that was right in the corner of the West Wing there, on the circle. They hadn’t built the Press Room over the pool yet. That came on my time also.
A Ockershausen: That came after Kennedy, didn’t it?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. I got to see that old Press Room that you walked in, and there were leather sofas everywhere, and guys sleeping on them. Then there was this room over to the side where there were a few print reporters and a there were a couple of wooden phone booths. AP and UPI each had a phone booth. I remember it so clearly because it just blew my mind. Anyway, I drift into the past.
A Ockershausen: It’s great to hear. What’s past is prologue, of course.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: You having all that experience added to your ability, then become a producer, and then become deeply involved in CBS News, obviously.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.

Carol’s Love for Live TV

A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: Janice: The cross-pollination.
Carol Ross Joynt: Janice: … sure.
Carol Ross Joynt: A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt: My very first assignment Then you started coaching or working with people like Charlie Rose.
Yes. I was one of Charlie’s producers. That experience … I think CNN now fills that role today. That experience I had at CNN, being a reporter for a wire service, having to dictate stories, on my feet, from a payphone …
… on the run …
… with all the punctuation, the paragraphs, knowing that it would just go to a desk editor who would clean it up, then it would go to a teletype operator, and out. That you had to write it off the top of your head, and then get back to the story. Then come back with updates. That you had to do all of this on the fly completely prepared me for live television.
Absolutely.
Live television makes a lot of people quiver and melt. But, after filing for the wires, it was kind of like …
… For you.
… I’m addicted to it., I’m addicted to it.
Right.
I love live. Tape to me is just boring.
There was a time right in this building, very close to where we are, we’d have four or five machines clicking, click, click, click, click …
Yes. The teletypes.
… tickers, wire tickers, sports tickers.
I know.
It’s all gone now.
Newsrooms are so quiet now. Newsrooms are very quiet. Not only that, but everybody sits there with earbuds in their ears.
It was so great, though, to watch reporters and watch everything …
I loved the hum. I loved the din of the newsroom.
Right. It helped me write because …
… it was just that noise. I didn’t mind that.
Inspiration.
One conversation would distract me, but the din of the newsroom just roiling was … When I went to Time magazine, I had to adjust a little bit. I was so used to deadline every minute.
at Time was to cover The Godfather premiere. That was the first and only time I ever asked a woman, it was Nancy Kissinger – Henry Kissinger’s wife, who she was wearing.

The Godfather Movie Premiere

A Ockershausen: Where was the premier, in New York?
Carol Ross Joynt: It was in New York. The thing is they wouldn’t let a little grunt reporter like me go into the screening. But, I was invited to the party on the St. Regis’ rooftop after, with Ali McGraw and Bob Evans and all the cast. I hadn’t seen the movie. I didn’t know Al Pacino from anything. Marlon Brando was not at the party. Then, the next day I got to see the movie, and I thought, “Oh my God. I was there with all those people. I still got my story written, and it worked out.
A Ockershausen: It’s still a beautiful story though, to be on …
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: What year was that, ’72? It was a long time …
Carol Ross Joynt: No.
A Ockershausen: I remember the premier so vividly.
Carol Ross Joynt: No. Wait. I went up to New York. Yes. I went up to New York in ’72, or maybe ’71. But, the story that I remember where the wire service … where it was so jarring that I was at a magazine … Remember Martha Mitchell? The Attorney General’s – John Mitchell’s wife …
A Ockershausen: … Oh, yes …

Finding Martha Mitchell

Carol Ross Joynt: … during Watergate she went off the reservation …
A Ockershausen: … She was a pisser as I recall …
Carol Ross Joynt: … She went rogue. We got word that she had escaped Washington and was holed-up at the Westchester Country Club. I was assigned to go to the Westchester Country Club and find her. There were other reporters there, too. In the great tradition of …
A Ockershausen: … Who were you working for? Time …
Carol Ross Joynt: … Time magazine. In the great tradition of journalism, … And this was a weekend … The magazine had already gone to press for that Monday, and there wouldn’t be another magazine for a week. I go right in with my new Time Magazine money, bribing doormen and what not to help me to get to her room. I get to her room, and she’s talking to me through the door. But, I’ve got this incredible story.
I found Martha Mitchell, and she’s talking to me. I race down to the desk of the hotel, and I say, “You’ve got to let me use your phone. I’ve got to call my editor.” I called my editor, whose name was Marsh Clark, and the switchboard at Time contacted him at a dinner party he was at. I was breathless. I said, “Oh my God. Marsh, I’ve found Martha Mitchell, and I’ve got her. I’ve got a great story.” He said, “Carol, that’s wonderful. You just take your notes and bring them in on Monday. Remember we don’t go to press until the end of the week.” I thought, “Oh my God. I’m not made out for this.”
A Ockershausen: You could have sold it to the New York Times then.
Carol Ross Joynt: I could’ve sold it to the Daily News, who ended breaking the story.
A Ockershausen: You were the only one to find her?
Carol Ross Joynt: Others did after me, but …
A Ockershausen: … you got her first.
Carol Ross Joynt: We didn’t have the internet then. Obviously, Time Magazine would have …
A Ockershausen: … would have been all over the world that night.
Carol Ross Joynt: War stories.
A Ockershausen: They’re good stories. They’re not war stories …
Carol Ross Joynt: … but my wire-service training …
A Ockershausen: Be proud of what you are, Carol.
Carol Ross Joynt: … made me love live TV.
A Ockershausen: It sure did.
Carol Ross Joynt: When live TV was offered to me, I jumped.
A Ockershausen: We had such things here called live radio, which we don’t have …
Carol Ross Joynt: … once upon a time.
A Ockershausen: This podcast is live radio. This is Andy Ockershausen. This is Our Town. I’m talking to Carol Joynt, Carol Ross Joynt, and we’ll be right back after this commercial, I hope.
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Announcer: You’re listening to Our Town, with Andy Ockershausen, brought to you by Best Bark Communications.
A Ockershausen: Having a wonderful conversation with Carol Joynt, who usually asks all the questions and waits for the answers. But, I’m asking the questions, and I’m giving the answers too, which is kind of stupid. But, Carol, this led you then into other fields. You left Time and got involved with live television. You know, Time, at one time, owned the newspaper and couldn’t make it go. Time Incorporated, Luce, they owned the paper.
What a wonderful thing for you to have this background, I think, in journalism to get into the real world of producing television.

Carol Meets Walter Cronkite

Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. Everything leads to something. Because I worked at UPI, I got the job at Time. Time had me also covering the Space program. Because I was doing the Space program, I went down and did a story on the network coverage of the launch. I guess this was … I did both Apollo 13 and Apollo 17. One of the things I had to do was to talk to Walter Cronkite. I had to …
A Ockershausen: He was the voice of the scene.
Carol Ross Joynt: I had … And don’t ever be shy about doing this. I had written Walter a fan letter once. He was on the cover of Look Magazine, and this little UPI grunt … I’m reading this story, and it says that he worked for UPI, and he found it to be the finest vineyard in journalism. So, I pulled out my manual typewriter, put in a piece of paper, and I wrote him a fan letter. I sent it to New York not ever expecting to get a response. But, I got a letter. It said in the letter, “If we’re ever in the same place at the same time, let me know. I’d love to meet you.”
Then, when I was going to be going down to cover the launch, I wrote to Walter again. I said, “Mr. Cronkite, no way you’d remember who I am, but …” He said, “No. No. No.” He wrote back and he said, “Come find me. Come talk to me.”
I get down to the Cape. I get the CBS publicist, and I’m like, “That’s the CBS hut, right?” He said, “Yes, where they broadcast from.” I said, “Is Walter in there?” He said, “Yes. He’s getting ready to do the evening news.” I said, “Will you go in and tell him that Carol Ross is here?” He said, “Are you out of your friggin’ mind?” He said, “What do you want me to do?” I said, “Will you just go in and tell Walter that Carol Ross is here?” He said, “I am not going to do that. Why would I do that?” I said, “No. It’ll be okay. I promise you, just do it.”
After much badgering, he goes in, and I’m waiting. I’m standing out there. Remember I have my pin-striped bell-bottom pants on, and my black jacket, and my big press-pass for covering the launch. All of a sudden, Bernie comes out of the door with this shocked look on his face. Behind him is Walter Cronkite. Walter goes, “Well, hello there, Carol Ross. There you are. You came and looked me up.” He kind of bats Bernie out of the way. He says, “Would you like to come in and watch me do the evening news?”
I don’t do a very good Walter.
A Ockershausen: Yes, you do.
Carol Ross Joynt: Walter, wherever you are, forgive me. I followed Walter in. He took me up to the set. He found me a place to sit. I watched him do the show. After it was done, he actually said this to me, “Would like to go outside and have a coke?”
A Ockershausen: It was a half-hour show, correct?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. He took me out to the back of their hut overlooking the launch pad. They had a coke machine, and we each got a bottle of coke and sat on a curb. He just talked to me like I was …
A Ockershausen: … like you were a real person.
Carol Ross Joynt: … a real person. He just said to me, “Keep in touch with me. Whatever you do with your career.”
A Ockershausen: Wow.
Carol Ross Joynt: At the next launch, I went to see him. I was down there to cover it again. I went over to see him.
A Ockershausen: Who were you covering it for?
Carol Ross Joynt: Time magazine. He said, “What are you up to?” I said, “Well, I’m quitting Time.” He said, “Why?” I said, “Because I’m not a weekly deadline person.” We talked like this back then. I said, “I’m going to go. I’m going to take a bus trip across country and find myself.” He said, “Well, do me a favor, before you go to find yourself, will you call me when we get back to New York, because I have a place for a writer. There’s a lot of pressure on me to hire a woman. I’ve never had a woman writer. If I’m going to have a writer, they’re going to come from the wire services.” I called him, and he hired me.
A Ockershausen: You found yourself without leaving New York.
Carol Ross Joynt: I gave my notice at Time. This was quite coincidental, or ironic, the same day I gave my notice at Time to go become Walter Cronkite’s writer was the same day that Life magazine folded. When Life magazine folded, the reason was given was television. I’m in the elevator with all my friends from Life, who were off to Hurley’s to get drunk.
A Ockershausen: The bar. That was the CBS bar in New York, wasn’t it? Hurley’s.
Carol Ross Joynt: It was the Time bar. It was the Time-Life bar, and the NBC bar.
A Ockershausen: I remember Hurley’s.

Carol Works for Walter Cronkite

Carol Ross Joynt: But, I did not dare tell any of them that I’d just been hired to be Walter Cronkite’s writer. I just swallowed my secret. I just kept my news to myself, because they were devastated that … The world was devastated when Life folded. It was the end of an era. I’d grown up with Life.
I entered TV as a writer, not as a producer, as a writer, which was a wonderful way of …
A Ockershausen: … That was your background.
Carol Ross Joynt: It was my background. Five nights a week, wrote the evening news for Walter. At the time I started, I think LBJ died not long after I started. Watergate was going on. My time there spanned Watergate and Vietnam and the fall of Vietnam, all of that.
A Ockershausen: What a time?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: What a time for our world?
Carol Ross Joynt: I was sitting beside Walter at the studios here on M Street when Nixon resigned. I handed him the flash that came over the wires that said Nixon had resigned. I was with him the night that Vietnam fell. We did a live broadcast. The Patty Hearst …
A Ockershausen: … What a memory …
Carol Ross Joynt: … kidnapping and so many events that span that time I was with him. It was remarkable.
A Ockershausen: Absolutely.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: Such a historical time …
Carol Ross Joynt: … Yes …
A Ockershausen: … and memory time for our country.
Carol Ross Joynt: Right.
A Ockershausen: All the things that you talked about.
Carol Ross Joynt: The amazing people I worked with too. The executive producer and senior producers and field producers on the show, the associate producers, the director, everybody went on to enduring amazing careers …
A Ockershausen: … careers at CBS …
Carol Ross Joynt: … and TV news and other networks …
A Ockershausen: … the Tiffany network …
Carol Ross Joynt: … moving on to make the evening news better at other networks …
A Ockershausen: Did you ever work for Dan Rather?
Carol Ross Joynt: I did. Two people were filling in for Walter while I was there. Dan Rather and Roger Mudd, because they were both vying for his job.
A Ockershausen: That is correct. It went to Dan and Roger faded out after that.
Carol Ross Joynt: Because nobody liked Roger. The people on the inside, Dan was very nice to as Roger wasn’t. That’s how the world works.
A Ockershausen: I think it was the opposite on the outside. Roger seemed like a sweetheart.
Carol Ross Joynt: Well …
A Ockershausen: We knew him the local guy.
Carol Ross Joynt: Roger and I didn’t have a good relationship. He and Walter had such animosity. I just conveniently became the pawn between that. I learned a lot about TV.
A Ockershausen: I’ll bet.
Carol Ross Joynt: TV’s a wonderful business, and it’s a devious business …
A Ockershausen: … Isn’t it fabulous though?
Carol Ross Joynt: … it’s a high-stakes business, and everybody’s trying to kill everybody else.
A Ockershausen: How did you get to Washington? Up to this point, you’re still a New Yorker.

A Year Off – Working Crew in Antiqua on Sailboat and South of France – Antibes

Carol Ross Joynt: I am. I quit the evening news after Saigon fell, because I was now 25 years old, and I still wanted to go find myself, as I told Walter …
A Ockershausen: … an old TV person by then …
Carol Ross Joynt: … and old TV person by then. I was just going to take a year. I didn’t know what. I packed up all my stuff. I parked it at my parents’ home in Warrenton, Virginia. Just by somebody inviting me to go sailing in the Caribbean, which I accepted because I wasn’t doing anything, I ended up down in the Caribbean. Loved the sailing thing. Asked the people on the sailboat, “Is this a job? Do you get paid?” They said, “Yes, we do. We get paid. We live on the boat.”
A Ockershausen: Walter was a world-class sailor.
Carol Ross Joynt: Exactly. My boyfriend, who I had left behind, was a sailor too. I said, “How do I get this job?” They said, “You can go to Antigua and hang out and get on boats and learn a little about sailing and then try to get a job crewing on a boat.” So, I did that. When my friends went back to Washington, I got on a plane and flew to Antigua, arrived with some names on a piece of paper. I went down to Nelson’s Dockyard, English Harbor …
A Ockershausen: … Antigua …
Carol Ross Joynt: … and started bartering myself out on boats. I lived in a land locker, bartered myself out to learn varnishing, to learn how to winch, to learn how to sail into the wind, to tack on this, to do that …
A Ockershausen: Wow.
Carol Ross Joynt: Then, I got a job crewing on a boat. I crewed on a boat for about seven months …
A Ockershausen: … Did you do cooking too?
Carol Ross Joynt: I did it all. I scrubbed heads. I varnished. I scrubbed the hull. I was a deckhand, and I became a cook, which was really interesting since I didn’t have a clue about cooking. But, the cook we had got drunk one night and took off with the dinghy. We never saw him again, so we didn’t have a dinghy and we didn’t have a cook. We had all these high-priced guests on board. The captain, who was also by then my boyfriend, said, “You’ve got to cook.” I said, “I can’t cook.”
We went ashore, and I managed to find a copy of the Joy of Cooking. That’s what I faked it. I faked it every week. What I’d do is I’d make these very potent rum punches to start dinner. I’d put 151 proof rum in them, because nobody was driving. I’d get the guests all tanked on that, then they thought my food was great. I didn’t have a clue what I was doing.
A Ockershausen: Started from the ground down. Carol Joynt, this is wonderful, wonderful talk. We’re not finished. I’ve got a lot of questions to ask you. This is Our Town.
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Announcer: Our Town, with Andy Ockershausen.
A Ockershausen: This is Our Town, with Carol Joynt. We have found Carol in the Caribbean being ship’s crew, doing it all. I’m wondering, how does she get from the Caribbean back to Washington DC?
Carol Ross Joynt: A few voyages. I sailed up to Fort Lauderdale.
A Ockershausen: Did you bring the captain with you?
Carol Ross Joynt: I did, but ditched him after that, mutually. He didn’t adapt to land. Then, a friend I’d met in the Caribbean invited me to go over to Monaco for the Grand Prix. I’d never done that, so I said, “Yes.”
I got to the south of France, and much like when I got to the Caribbean, I thought, “I really like this.”
A Ockershausen: What’s not to like?
Carol Ross Joynt: The man I was traveling with, we parted ways amicably. I met a woman whose boyfriend was just going off to sail around the world, and she gave me a cot and a sleeping bag in her flat, in her living room in the village of Antibes. I spent the next three months just living in the south of France and pretending I was a French woman.

Back with Walter Cronkite for the ’76 Convention then on to DC

The bicentennial was coming up, and my year off … I’d taken a year off and it was coming up to that year off. I flew back to Washington, actually I flew to New York. I stopped by CBS. Russ Bensley, who was running all the coverage for the Democratic Convention that was about to happen at Madison Square Garden, looks at me and he says, “Are you back?” I said, “Yes.”
Then, he had me go to Kansas City to write for Walter at the ’76 Convention. Then, I said, “I’ve got to go back to Washington and make a pit stop and see my parents and just settle in. Fortunately, a friend of mine from the Cronkite days had taken over the NBC bureau, Ed Fouhy, to be the Bureau Chief …
A Ockershausen: Yes. I remember Ed.
Carol Ross Joynt: … Ed asked me if I would … I spent a little bit of time writing the 11 o’clock news at local, and trying to be a local reporter …
A Ockershausen: … for 9 or 4?
Carol Ross Joynt: 4. Trying to be a local reporter, but I liked to be behind the camera. Ed Fouhy said, “Will you be our night Assignment Editor?” There I was, back in television as the Assignment Editor, which led to some field producing. For me, going out one night … I got off work at 11 … Max Schindler, my Desk Assistant … He later became a director. His father was the Director of Meet the Press.

Carol Ross Meets Howard Joynt

I told Max I was invited to this party, and I wasn’t going to know anybody, and it started at midnight, and it was after hours … That was after-hours in DC then. It was at a place called Clyde’s. He said, “You’re going. I’m driving you there.” It sounded like my father. “I’m dropping you off and you’re going in.” He did, and I did.
That’s where Howard Joynt walked in. I met him that night, in May of 1977. Two weeks later we started living together, and my pit stop became a lifetime here. I was always going to leave. I was always like Jimmy Stewart. I’m going to leave. I’m going to leave.
A Ockershausen: You met at Clyde’s. That’s a wonderful story.
Carol Ross Joynt: Right. Right. I stayed at NBC another year after we met.
A Ockershausen: Locally?
Carol Ross Joynt: Network.
A Ockershausen: In the same building.
Carol Ross Joynt: Running the Assignment desk. Yes. Back then they were in the same room.
A Ockershausen: Right.

Producing Night Watch with Charlie Rose

Carol Ross Joynt: Then, over time, I moved on into producing. Somebody came and approached me about this very, I thought, bizarre but interesting concept that was called talk TV. We’re going to do this show called Night Watch, and it’s going to be on overnight. We’re going to have guests come in. I said, “You mean we’re not going to go out and shoot stories? We’re going to have the person come in and be interviewed?” I said, “That’s so weird.” They said, “No, we’ll pre-interview them.” I said, “What’s that?”
But, I agreed to do it. The host of the show was Charlie Rose.
A Ockershausen: They were doing it at nine.
Carol Ross Joynt: No. We were doing it at the CBS studio on M Street, at 2020 M …
A Ockershausen: … 2020 M …
Carol Ross Joynt: … live at 2 o’clock in the morning.
A Ockershausen: Right.
Carol Ross Joynt: It was crazy. It was just completely off the cliff and such wonderful fun, because none of the bosses were watching …
A Ockershausen: … right …
Carol Ross Joynt: So we were doing these incredible …
A Ockershausen: … somebody’s always watching. I found that out years ago …
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. We had like a .9 rating, but we were on the air.
A Ockershausen: The people though …
Carol Ross Joynt: Our audience was great. It was people who worked in hospitals. It was new parents. It was …
A Ockershausen: … military …
Carol Ross Joynt: … students …
A Ockershausen: … we found that out.
Carol Ross Joynt: It was a very bright, attentive audience.
A Ockershausen: Absolutely.
Carol Ross Joynt: We also found out though that working from 2 to 4 a.m. was a grueling shift. So, what we started doing was pre-taping the show from 10 to noon during the day, at the CBS studio. We could get better guests, and they were awake. Then, we’d come back at 11 o’clock at night and tape the top of the show.
So, the first half hour would be our newsy part. I produced that.
A Ockershausen: That was real.
Carol Ross Joynt: That was great fun, because you’d get the same kind of people they were getting on Nightline. We would deal with the breaking news of the day in the first half hour of the show. That’d get tacked on to the other hour and a half. Then, that would air from 2 to 4 and repeat from 4 to 6.
From doing Charlie and Night Watch …
A Ockershausen: That was before Nightline wasn’t it?
Carol Ross Joynt: At the same time.
A Ockershausen: Nightline started ’79.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes, but I started at Night Watch in ’84.
A Ockershausen: I think it was later. I don’t know how he did it, but Charlie used to come in a very popular local restaurant called the Dancing Crab …
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: I used to see Charlie in there all the time …
Carol Ross Joynt: He was probably on his way home. He lived up by Maret School …
A Ockershausen: Did he?
Carol Ross Joynt: … so it would be …
A Ockershausen: … He would come in and sit at the bar and we’d BS …
Carol Ross Joynt: This is the history of Charlie’s house. First it was owned by Tom Brokaw. Tom and his wife, when Tom moved to New York, sold it to Charlie. Then, when Charlie left, he sold it to Tim Russert. Yes. So that house …
A Ockershausen: … I know where you’re talking about. It’s real close to where Mark Russell lives.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. It’s on Woodley Road.
A Ockershausen: Remember Mark Russell?
Carol Ross Joynt: I do, very well.
A Ockershausen: We dug him up, and Mark did this podcast. He was sensational. Janice had this premier party. Mark came, and he was the hit of the evening.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: Wonderful man.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: He grew up here too. He’s from Buffalo. He’s like you. You grew up here in a lot of ways.
Carol Ross Joynt: I did. Boy, did I ever. And the real growing up was yet to come, because I was living a sheltered and perfect life. I had the man of my dreams. I was married. My career went from Charlie Rose to …
A Ockershausen: You could almost have your pick.

This Week with David Brinkley, Nightline and Larry King Live

Carol Ross Joynt: … This Week with David Brinkley, then Nightline, then ultimately Larry King Live, is his big game hunter.
A Ockershausen: Larry was in Washington last week. He had a baseball cap, I don’t know why, but…
Carol Ross Joynt: He loves to come. He has an apartment in Rosslyn.
A Ockershausen: Remember the name Linda Roth? I think Linda worked a lot with him …
Carol Ross Joynt: Right.
A Ockershausen: during his publicity …
Carol Ross Joynt: She was his PR person …
A Ockershausen: He always spoke to me. He always liked to have the all-night show on WMAL.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: We couldn’t do it.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: He was great all night too. That was great. I loved that.
Carol Ross Joynt: I love all-night radio. I go to bed at night …
A Ockershausen: Absolutely.
Carol Ross Joynt: From the time I was like six years old, I’d listen to a transistor radio all night. I still do …
A Ockershausen: Absolutely.
Carol Ross Joynt: … There’s these like I Heart Radio and other apps you can get. You can listen to talk radio all over the country. I love it.
A Ockershausen: Radio’s still the theater of the mind. That’s why we have our podcast.
Carol Ross Joynt: That’s how I find out what people are thinking outside the Beltway.
A Ockershausen: Tell me about your son was born in Washington.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. When I was with … It was before I went to Larry King. It was when I was at Nightline. Spencer was born in ’91. I spent three years, before he started school, just kicking back. I made documentary films for the National Gallery of Art, working with Carter Brown, which was unbelievable. So much fun.
A Ockershausen: You didn’t fool around with …
Carol Ross Joynt: No.
A Ockershausen: You were in the A league all the time.
Carol Ross Joynt: I always wanted to be in that kind of soft, luxurious place of making documentaries, working with large film crews …
A Ockershausen: Large budgets too.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. It was a dream. Then Carter retired. At the same time, Wendy Whitworth, who was the executive producer of Larry King, called me up and said, “Have you ever thought of coming back into TV?” All she had to do was say, “Live TV.” That was like my crack. She said, “I’m really looking for a big game hunter for Larry.”
My son was starting almost all-day school then …
A Ockershausen: You had time.
Carol Ross Joynt: … and I signed up with Larry King Live. I was there three years. Amazing time. Just amazing time. I was there when my husband died. My husband died in February of ’97. At the same time, when he died, I inherited his bar, Nathan’s.
A Ockershausen: That was 20 years ago.

Carol Inherits Nathan’s Restaurant in Georgetown and IRS Criminal Investigation

Carol Ross Joynt: I’d never worked a day in my life in a restaurant.
A Ockershausen: Yes, but you had worked a ship. You were a ship’s crew, so …
Carol Ross Joynt: … That doesn’t mean a darn thing. All of a sudden, I had the corner pub in the wild west. It was a boys’ club. It was open when most people are still sleeping. I knew nothing about … All I knew was pillow-talk. All I knew was who stole from him. All I knew were the bad things. I had no idea how to run it.
All I could remember was all the bad things he told me. All of a sudden, it’s mine. In the same breath, from his lawyers, I find out he was being investigated for criminal tax fraud. I’m like, “Okay. Do I just sign some things and that’s done?” They go, “No. As his wife, you’re now the defendant.” That’s not even a joke.
A Ockershausen: Wife and owner.
Carol Ross Joynt: That shaped the next decade of my life. I had to fight the IRS, and I won.
A Ockershausen: But it wasn’t easy.
Carol Ross Joynt: It wasn’t easy. But, in many ways, I could be their poster girl, because they were fair to me. I deserved the code called Innocent Spouse, and they awarded it to me. But, it was a long, hard battle to get it.
A Ockershausen: Was Keith Stein your lawyer?
Carol Ross Joynt: No. Sheldon Cohen and Miriam Fisher.
A Ockershausen: I know the name Sheldon Cohen.
Carol Ross Joynt: They were both amazing. I fired the lawyers I inherited and got my own lawyers, because that’s what you always do.
A Ockershausen: Howard was an attorney, right?
Carol Ross Joynt: No. No, he was a gentleman saloon owner, an aristocratic gentleman saloon owner.
A Ockershausen: I thought he was a lawyer. I used to see him down …

Innocent Spouse Defense

Carol Ross Joynt: His father was a lawyer, which helped him a lot. Because his father, the lawyer, was able to bankroll Nathan’s. So, whenever it wasn’t … It’s a long story. If you read my book, Innocent Spouse, all the gory details are in there.
Janice Ockershausen: I read your book, Carol.
Carol Ross Joynt: Thank you.
A Ockershausen: This is Janice.
Janice Ockershausen: I had so much empathy for you. I really felt like I got to know you at that time.
A Ockershausen: Wow. There’s so much …
Carol Ross Joynt: It happens to a lot of people.
A Ockershausen: … Incredible.
Carol Ross Joynt: It happens to a lot of people.
A Ockershausen: Wow.
Carol Ross Joynt: In fact, Sheldon Cohen, when he was telling me about the Innocent Spouse code, because my first lawyer said I didn’t qualify. They said, “Look at you. You had to know.” That was a woman lawyer. Sheldon heard my whole story, and he said that the he created the Innocent Spouse code when he was IRS Commissioner …
A Ockershausen: He was the Commissioner under Kennedy, wasn’t he?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. I believe that’s right. For a woman, whose husband … That was not the same story as Howard. He had two wives and enormous tax debt. When he died, she had to pay the tax debt for this whole other family that he had that she didn’t know about. He created Innocent Spouse … Innocent Spouse is if you can legitimately prove you not only did not know, but very importantly, did not know you were benefiting from the …
A Ockershausen: That’s what I was thinking …
Carol Ross Joynt: … fraud. I lived well, but I thought it was from the earnings of the restaurant.
A Ockershausen: You thought the restaurant was making a lot of money, I’m sure.
Carol Ross Joynt: There was no reason not to think that.
A Ockershausen: Right.
Carol Ross Joynt: I didn’t see the books. I didn’t understand business. I walked in there. It was packed.
A Ockershausen: Did you introduce the new menu that became a gourmet menu? That’s what people would tell me, that Nathan’s has got the best food in Georgetown.

Paul Wahlberg Helps Create New Menu for Nathan’s

Carol Ross Joynt: It did. Even when Howard had it, it had marvelous food. It was northern Italian. But, by the time I went in there, I just felt we didn’t have grapevines. We didn’t look Italian. I just thought being at the corner of Wisconsin and M, we should have American food.
I hired, as a chef, a man named Paul Wahlberg. I did not know when I hired Paul … I knew Paul had a wonderful pedigree as a chef from up in Massachusetts and really knowing American cuisine. I did not know his brother was the actor Mark Wahlberg. I found that out after I hired him, but I thought that was cute detail.
A Ockershausen: There are three boys. He’s got another brother too, right?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. And they’re all characters in Entourage … But, Paul was my chef. We changed the whole menu to American. He stayed with me about a year or so, then his wife … They wanted to start a family, go back to Boston where both their families were. Since then, they have started … He and his brother Mark and Donny started a hamburger chain called Wahlburgers …
A Ockershausen: Yes. I’ve heard.
Carol Ross Joynt: … a reality TV show. He’s been in touch because he’s opening one here in DC on Dupont Circle.
A Ockershausen: A Wahlburger. I saw that.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. So it comes full circle.
A Ockershausen: You’re like an encyclopedia what happened …
Carol Ross Joynt: I’m old. If you live long enough …
A Ockershausen: Age has nothing to do with it.
Carol Ross Joynt: You have to live to …
A Ockershausen: Mike O’Harro’s a lot older than you. We say he created Georgetown. He recreated the Halloween when he had that Tramps. That was before you came here.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. I didn’t know that.
A Ockershausen: When he had the disco. But the reputation of Nathan’s was very fine food …
Carol Ross Joynt: Was that 40 years?
A Ockershausen: What is the bottom line with the government? Did you have to repay the money?
Carol Ross Joynt: No. I had to give them some of the money. The money that was in Howard’s name alone was theirs, the estate. So, they got a lot of money I would’ve liked to have had. But, what was in our name, our house on the Chesapeake Bay, our apartment in town, I got that, the furniture. Arguably, unfortunately, or fortunately, also Nathan’s.
My lawyers said, “You should give the landlords the key and walk away right now.” I thought I could sell it, but then the landlords I had wouldn’t let me. For the next 12 years, I had to run it.
A Ockershausen: You were the proprietor.
Carol Ross Joynt: Literally, it was every day like being on the deck of the Titanic, knowing it was sinking and just trying to figure out a way …
A Ockershausen: How to get to shore?
Carol Ross Joynt: … that I would get to dry land.

On Raising Spencer Joynt Then and Now

A Ockershausen: Where is your son at this time? He’s back in school?
Carol Ross Joynt: He’s a little kid growing up. I suppose that was the silver lining of having Nathan’s and being the owner, being the boss, was that I could go to all his school stuff …
A Ockershausen: You could be with him all the time.
Carol Ross Joynt: … go to all of his games.
Janice Ockershausen: I could visualize you in your townhouse in Georgetown. That’s how I remember, because I read it awhile ago. I would just think here’s this poor woman with all this baggage and this little boy …
A Ockershausen: She turned it to be a home run.
Janice Ockershausen: … and doing it just the two of you together …
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. A lot of humor.
Janice Ockershausen: … against the world. But you did portray that humor. You just plowed it out. You succeeded.
Carol Ross Joynt: He was a handful too.
A Ockershausen: Peter?
Carol Ross Joynt: Spencer.
A Ockershausen: Spencer. Why did he pick Texas? To get away from you?
Carol Ross Joynt: No. No. No. He got …
A Ockershausen: That’s a joke, Carol.
Carol Ross Joynt: Maybe in part. He had gotten into Georgetown, which I thought was just a great place for him to go. He was about three months there, and he came home and announced that he was tired of being around private-school kids … I thought, “I wish you’d told me that before …” … and that he really wanted to go to a big state school. He liked Michigan, but he didn’t want to be in the snow.
A Ockershausen: Cold weather.
Carol Ross Joynt: He liked North Carolina, but he didn’t want to be down there. He said, “I want to be in a city that’s really cool and where they don’t hate the college students like they do in Georgetown. So, he found the University of Texas, Austin …
A Ockershausen: Yes.
Carol Ross Joynt: I said, “Look, this is your project. You apply. You get in. Off we go.” He applied. He got in for his sophomore year, and we drove to Texas. It was the first time either one of us had ever been to Texas, ever been to Austin, or ever been to UT. But, he loved it. He loved it. He found himself there. He found that he really wanted to be a creative.
A Ockershausen: Beautiful country. Hill country.
Carol Ross Joynt: He got into their advertising program and got a degree in creative advertising.
A Ockershausen: He’s back in Washington now?
Carol Ross Joynt: Working for the iStrategyLabs advertising agency, in Shaw …
A Ockershausen: What’s it called?
Carol Ross Joynt: … making commercials. iStrategyLabs.
A Ockershausen: I’ve heard of it, but …
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s an indigenous, very successful advertising agency. They’re in the old Wonder Bread building.
A Ockershausen: Wow.
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s a wonderful part of town.
A Ockershausen: Griffith Stadium. You’re too young. I used to go there and smell the bakery and the bread. You go to baseball and all you do is smell bread.
Carol Ross Joynt: That building’s there now. I love his office, because it’s so fresh and modern. All the kids … they’re in their 20s and 30s …
A Ockershausen: They’re still kids.
Carol Ross Joynt: They all bring their dogs to work. I want to work where I can bring a dog to work.
Janice Ockershausen: It’s collaborative isn’t it also.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
Janice Ockershausen: It’s open seating and …
Carol Ross Joynt: You know. They have little pods where they can crawl into to rest during the day.
A Ockershausen: Sure.
Carol Ross Joynt: They have a beautiful kitchen. They have an old VW bus that’s been repurposed for meetings. They have the fuselage of an airplane that’s been repurposed for meetings. It’s just …
A Ockershausen: Sounds like something in the dot com world from San Francisco…
Carol Ross Joynt: It is of that generation …
A Ockershausen: Facebook … never had an office.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. But, this is very much an office, and they’re very much doing business.
A Ockershausen: It’s open.
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s a free-wheeling environment.
A Ockershausen: It’s not Mad Men.
Carol Ross Joynt: No. It’s not.
A Ockershausen: I grew up in the Mad Men era from when I was with NBC Universal. People would say … These kids that work here say, “People smoked in the office? What?”
Carol Ross Joynt: They smoked on airplanes too.
A Ockershausen: “And they drank in the office?”
Janice Ockershausen: Oh yes.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: I said, “That was business.”
Carol Ross Joynt: There were bars in the office.
A Ockershausen: That’s the way it was. They couldn’t believe it. It’s better now, I would say. Carol, you’ve had such a wonderful experience.
Carol Ross Joynt: I don’t think I could do my job if I …
A Ockershausen: Have you had grandchildren yet?
Carol Ross Joynt: No. He’s only turning 25.
A Ockershausen: He’s a baby.
Carol Ross Joynt: He’s a baby. There’s time. I did not have him until I was 41, so I tell him there’s time. But, he’s got a girlfriend.
Janice Ockershausen: In the last couple minutes …
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.

Q & A Café

Janice Ockershausen: … before we wrap up. I want to hear a little bit about the Q & A Café.
Carol Ross Joynt: Oh, thank you. It just turned 15. That was the silver lining of Nathan’s. Here I was at this bar and restaurant, where I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. I had a wonderful manager, John Moss, who was running it for me. 911 happened. John came later. But, at the time of 911, I had this epiphany that there was something I could do.
I was going to bring somebody in, and I was going to ask them questions about terrorism preparedness in the back room at lunchtime. I printed out a little flyer that I tacked all over Georgetown. We did a menu that was $15. You got a scoop of tuna salad, a scoop of chicken salad, and Chuck Vance …
A Ockershausen: Sounds like chock-full-o-nuts.
Carol Ross Joynt: … We had Chuck Vance, who had been Gerald Ford’s body man in the Secret Service and created his own agency, came in, and we talked about terrorism preparedness. The Washington Post happened to be there and wrote it up. A reliable source that gave it a little bit of a bounce. We did another one on who was Osama Bin Laden. We did another one on this and another one on that. People kept asking me to keep doing it, and over time I started doing one a week. It ended up on News Channel 8 as a regular show and on DC cable.
A Ockershausen: It was taped on location.
Carol Ross Joynt: We taped it right there. We’ve had 400 guests.
A Ockershausen: Wow.
Carol Ross Joynt: When Nathan’s closed in ’09, I kind of lifted it off the deck of the Titanic with me, and took it to the Ritz Carlton for a couple of years. Now, we’re at the Georgetown Club, on Wisconsin Avenue, …
A Ockershausen: I know it well.
Carol Ross Joynt: … and while it’s a private club, my show is not private. Anybody can come to it. We do it once a month now, because I have to go work and earn a living. We just did Maureen Dowd. We recently did Diane Rehm. Bob Woodward. We’ve got Andrew Sullivan coming up just at the time of the inauguration. It’s the same premise. It’s lunchtime, there’s food …
A Ockershausen: Right.
Carol Ross Joynt: I sit with the guest. We’re two people on bar stools just dishing for 45 minutes.
Janice Ockershausen: How does one get tickets?
Carol Ross Joynt: I have a website, CarolJoynt.com. J-o-y-n-t. CarolJoynt.com. I always post what the new lunch is. I’m on Twitter, CarolJoynt. I’m on Facebook, Carol Joynt …
A Ockershausen: You’re on dish?
Carol Ross Joynt: No. It’s my own website.
A Ockershausen: Okay.
Carol Ross Joynt: CarolJoynt.com. I’m on Twitter. I’m on Facebook. I’m on LinkedIn. I’m at SnapChat. You can find me.
A Ockershausen: We have to get that booked. Janice is in Georgetown, so I can come down now.
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s not Nathan’s. I had a hard time keeping the audience happy that it’s not Nathan’s. I said, “Well, did you really want me to go to the depths of the Potomac River and never come back up?” It’s a lovely little thing, and I’m glad it’s still happening.
A Ockershausen: Great. What about your house in the Chesapeake Bay? Do you still have it?
Carol Ross Joynt: Sold that long ago.
A Ockershausen: Oh, you did?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: Needed the money, of course.
Carol Ross Joynt: When you have the IRS looking at you … Even though I ended up winning, I didn’t know I was going to win. When you go to war, you’ve got to prepare for everything. I sold much of what I had.
A Ockershausen: You didn’t lose, that’s for sure.
Carol Ross Joynt: No. I lost a lot, but I didn’t lose … I lost a lot of material possessions and a lot of security, lost my safety net, but I still have myself.
A Ockershausen: Well, it wasn’t very safe at the time. You didn’t know that.
Carol Ross Joynt: No, but it’s when you no longer have security. When you no longer have a place to go when you have no place to go, it’s a different view of the world.
A Ockershausen: No question.
Carol Ross Joynt: It makes you grow up.
A Ockershausen: You weren’t 25 either.
Carol Ross Joynt: No. But, it’s …
A Ockershausen: And you took the shot in New York, in the big city.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. Another thing I learned while owning Nathan’s too, was that when you start paying people with your own money, when you own a business, and you sign the paychecks, and it’s your own money, you have a whole different view of the world.
A Ockershausen: No question about it.
Carol Ross Joynt: Because, I was very used to living off other people’s money. But, when it becomes your own, and you have to make the decisions, you have to grow up. You have to leave that sheltering bubble.
A Ockershausen: But you’ve done that with great success. Yes you have, Carol.
Carol Ross Joynt: I don’t know. I mean yes and no.
A Ockershausen: Yes, you have. You look great. You’re happy. You’ve got …
Carol Ross Joynt: Happy to be here with you.
A Ockershausen: Happy to be here with Janice. She’s given me a new life. I was on the beach …
Janice Ockershausen: Well.
A Ockershausen: … but I’m not anymore.
Carol Ross Joynt: I’m happy to see a broadcast studio still.
A Ockershausen: It still works.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: They still do broadcasting.
Carol Ross Joynt: Right. You’re being very kind.
A Ockershausen: Carol, at one time we had 30 people working in a news room, just for this radio station. It’s how busy we were. We had a guy on the street all night, named Larry Krebs. He was an all-night reporter. Unheard of then.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: We’re talking about in the early ’80s.

Starting Over in the Business

Carol Ross Joynt: But now, you know, I’m back at work. I came in as like the junior member of the staff. I’m back at the very beginning of my career.
A Ockershausen: It’s great though.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. I’m like the 60 year-old millennial. I’m competing …
Janice Ockershausen: … who wants to dance.
Carol Ross Joynt: You know what I did? I’m so much competing with millennials for jobs that I had to take my resume … because it wasn’t … It was getting spit out by the human resources filters as not qualified. So, I had to cut most of my resume out and have it be just the last five years so that they would think I was young. Still, when I apply for jobs, I’m always getting, “Well, we were actually looking for somebody with less experience.” I’m like, “I can be less experienced. I’ll be whatever you want me to be.”
A Ockershausen: Now you’re dealing with the HR world. That was not your world when you started with CBS and Time.
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s the internet too. All applications go through filters run by outsourced HR companies. There’s little keywords. If they see them it either moves you to the next level, or if they’re the wrong keywords, it kicks you out. They’re very careful to be sure to purge who might be perceived as being too experienced.
A Ockershausen: Well, you have made the grade, Carol Joynt.
Carol Ross Joynt: I try. I’m always trying …
A Ockershausen: Yes, you have.
Carol Ross Joynt: … to find new and different ways to stay …
A Ockershausen: And you will.
Carol Ross Joynt: … relevant.
A Ockershausen: You don’t live in Georgetown now, do you?
Carol Ross Joynt: I do live in Georgetown. I love Georgetown.
A Ockershausen: You’ve got to love …
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s changing dramatically, but …
A Ockershausen: Yes.
Carol Ross Joynt: … while I can still hold on, I do.
A Ockershausen: Traffic is 10 times worse than it was 5 years ago.
Carol Ross Joynt: M Street’s changed, but there’s good changes. There’s some changes I would change. It’s nice to see some really interesting restaurants coming back to Georgetown.
A Ockershausen: Love it.
Carol Ross Joynt: We have Chez Billy Sud. We have Fiola Mare. We have The Grill.
A Ockershausen: Tony and Joe’s.
Carol Ross Joynt: We have on Grace Street, SUNdeVICH has come in and District Donuts. A guy who
A Ockershausen: Cupcake Queens.
Carol Ross Joynt: They are amazing. The ladies who started Georgetown Cupcakes …
A Ockershausen: That’s world class, isn’t it?
Carol Ross Joynt: The quality has … I must say, full disclosure, they sponsor my Q & A Café, but I do believe in their product completely.
A Ockershausen: Yes. They’ve done fabulously well.
Carol Ross Joynt: They hired my manager from Nathan’s. When Nathan’s closed, they hired John Moss. He went and helped them open up all over the country.
A Ockershausen: Just amazing what they’ve done from that little store in Georgetown.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. They’re wonderful people.
A Ockershausen: Carol, I can’t tell you how impressed I am in everything that you’ve said and things you’ve talked about. You jar so many memories from my distant past. It really wasn’t that distant, but I love Georgetown. The Silver Dollar was the only place you could get a drink at one time, because it was illegal. But now, Georgetown is Our Town.
Carol Ross Joynt: You can drink all you want.
A Ockershausen: Isn’t it great.
Carol Ross Joynt: You can drink into the wee hours of the morning.
A Ockershausen: Clyde’s.
Carol Ross Joynt: Clyde’s is still there.
A Ockershausen: John Davidson.
Carol Ross Joynt: And Nathan’s is being redone. The Nathan’s building is redone. It’s going to be an Under Armour store. It’s going to be a cigar bar and bourbon bar down in the basement. The rooftop or the upstairs are going to be condos.
A Ockershausen: Kevin Plank’s going to own it all?
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes. To think that that building was once a Civil War prison and a whore house.
A Ockershausen: I thought it was condemned once. But, who knows.
Carol Ross Joynt: I don’t know about that.
A Ockershausen: Carol Ross Joynt, this has been so, so special. As we get through the life and times, to hear this is so great, and having you is wonderful. I’m flattered that you would come on out … little podcast.
Carol Ross Joynt: We’ve got very interesting times coming up, don’t we?
A Ockershausen: I didn’t know what it was, but it’s radio without a transmitter.
Carol Ross Joynt: I love podcasts.
A Ockershausen: You’ve got to love radio too.
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s the future.
A Ockershausen: Theater of the mind.
Carol Ross Joynt: You can take them with you wherever you go, and they’re always available.
A Ockershausen: I said something to Janice but you can’t …
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s awesome that you have this.
A Ockershausen: She said there in California, they can hear it anywhere.
Carol Ross Joynt: Anywhere in the world.
A Ockershausen: Isn’t that great?
Carol Ross Joynt: You’re global.
A Ockershausen: Carol Joynt, so are you. I love your stories.
Carol Ross Joynt: Thank you.
A Ockershausen: Anytime that we can help you on Our Town, we’re here for you.
Carol Ross Joynt: It’s a blast to be here.
A Ockershausen: Thank you so much, Carol Joynt.
Janice Ockershausen: Thank you, Carol.
A Ockershausen: This is Andy Ockershausen and Janice Ockershausen, producer extraordinaire.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: Business owner too, you know.
Carol Ross Joynt: Yes.
A Ockershausen: The girl’s made it big. Thank you. We’ll be back with our next podcast next week.
Announcer: You’ve been listening to Our Town, Season 1, with your host Andy Ockershausen. New Our Town podcast episodes are released each Tuesday and Thursday. We welcome your comments and suggestions on how you like the show or who you’d like to hear from next. Catch us on Facebook at Our Town DC, or visit our website at OurTownDC.com. Our special thanks to WMAL radio in Washington DC for hosting our podcasts.