Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD – Chief Medical Examiner, Washington DC

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Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD on hope, and why becoming a minister is so important to him ~

“It’s not enough for me just to speak to families. It’s extremely important for me to be on sides where we can really promote hope in a way that frees people so that we can make the best choices in this city.”

Andy Ockershausen: This is Andy Ockershausen and this is Our Town. I say this from the bottom of my bottom heart, it’s so delightful to have Roger Mitchell on Our Town. Do you realize Roger
that you are one of the most important persons in the city of Washington? You’re the Chief Medical Examiner for the Capitol City of the United States if not the world. What a title.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Listen, I made it to Our Town and the word on the street is if you can make it to Our Town, then you might very well be an important person. I’m excited about being here, Andy.
Andy Ockershausen: This program’s so important that we don’t have any commercials, but we do have some, but these are people in Our Town but Roger, you have such a career. What you’ve done is amazing to me because you’re a learned man and you paid the price to learn what you’re doing. But that is a great title, Chief Medical Examiner.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, Chief Medical Examiner. I’m a young chief, too.
Andy Ockershausen: I bet you are.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: There’s not many young chiefs out here and it’s just good. I’ve been here about five years now.
Andy Ockershausen: But you’re not a native. You didn’t grow up here of course, but you went to Howard University.

THE Howard University and New Jersey Medical School – Smart and Lucky

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I did go to Howard, THE Howard University.
Andy Ockershausen: You went to New Jersey for medical, are you from Jersey?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I am from Jersey, born and raised. New Jersey Medical School is a state school. It’s Rutgers New Jersey Medical School. It’s fantastic.
Andy Ockershausen: Fabulous institution, Rutgers, too, right? Gotta be smart.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: You gotta be smart or lucky.
Andy Ockershausen: It’s a tough school. You’re both!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I think on the bottom of my certificate, it might’ve said lucky but we won’t look at the fine print.
Andy Ockershausen: Luck follows speed, Roger. That’s something I learned many years ago. You gotta be fast in this world.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s it.
Andy Ockershausen: But, you have a background in forensic medicine which, to me, is so impressive and you continue to do it today.

OJ Trial Takes Forensics to New Level – Mitchell Becomes Interested in Forensics as a High School Junior

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I started forensics early. You remember the OJ trial, right?
Andy Ockershausen: Oh yeah.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: The infamous OJ trial, right?
Andy Ockershausen: Oh my, yeah.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: And so, forensics really, in this Country, was catapulted into the forefront.
Andy Ockershausen: I believe what you’re saying.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: This Country really wasn’t thinking about blood stain pattern and proper evidence handling really until the OJ trial. And so, when I was, I think I was in my junior year-
Andy Ockershausen: In medical school?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: No, it was in my junior year of undergrad at Howard University and I was doing-
Andy Ockershausen: Our Town.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Washington, D.C., yes, your town.
Andy Ockershausen: Great, great school.

Roger Mitchell is Legacy at Howard University – Grandfather, H. Donald Marshall, Attended Howard’s Medical School in 1920s

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Fantastic school and I’m a legacy there. My grandfather went to medical school at Howard in the 1920s.
Andy Ockershausen: Is that right?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah. I was there, I was doing science there.
Andy Ockershausen: Charlene Drew.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Of course.
Andy Ockershausen: Charlene’s Drew’s father, Charles Drew.

Dr. Charles Drew Guest at Dr. Marshall’s Home in Atlantic City – Era of Jim Crow Laws and the Green Book

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Charles Drew and my grandfather were friends.
Andy Ockershausen: That’s what I was thinking when you mentioned your grandfather.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Absolutely, they were friends. I have a guest book page from my grandfather’s guest book where Charles Drew signed that guest book. In 1939-
Andy Ockershausen: Wow.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Because my grandfather was one of the first black physicians in New Jersey and, during that time, if you come to Atlantic City, he was in Atlantic City. You come to Atlantic City, and you’re a prominent African American, you still couldn’t stay in hotels. Right? You would find other prominent African Americans to stay with and Charles Drew used to stay with my grandfather when he came into Atlantic City.
Andy Ockershausen: When he was traveling.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: When he was traveling. The Green Book.
Andy Ockershausen: Where did he make this great discovery or this exploration that he worked on?

Dr. Charles Drew – Expert in Transfusion Medicine Organized America’s First Large-Scale Blood Bank and Trauma Surgeon

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It was serum. Transfusion medicine. He was able to make human blood compatible with other humans. So it was really in the World War I where now you’re saving lives because men that are getting shot are able to get blood transfusions, that’s Charles Drew’s work. He was a trauma surgeon at Howard, one of the best.
Andy Ockershausen: Was he at Howard when he made that discovery?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Right before Howard, right before he got the trauma surgeon.
Andy Ockershausen: He’s well known in a family and I know Charlene and I know the kids.

Charlene Drew Jarvis – Dr. Charles Drew Daughter

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Oh man, she’s fantastic.
Andy Ockershausen: They’re a wonderful family.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I just saw her not too long ago at the mayor’s inauguration. Gave her a big hug.
Andy Ockershausen: She’s president of Southeastern University, I think recently. I don’t know, I haven’t seen her in a long time but I know her son.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: She’s part of the board on the UDC.
Andy Ockershausen: Ernie Jarvis, a friend of mine.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Fantastic.
Andy Ockershausen: His family, he’s great. But back to you, Roger. You’ve got it in your family blood. You’ve got it in your blood to be a physician.

Dr. Roger Mitchell Remembers His Grandfather’s Service to Community and Followed in His Footsteps

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, I wanted to be a physician. Stories of my grandfather taking pies and cakes and Sunday dinner for payment.
Andy Ockershausen: Oh yeah.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: You know? And so, when you’re a kid and you’re coming up and you’re walking through those streets and people are saying, “You’re Donald Marshall’s grandson? Let me tell you how he did x, y, and z for my mother,” or “Let me tell you what he did for my grandfather.” Those stories of service.
Andy Ockershausen: He was a true family doctor.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: He was a family doc, black bag, family doc. House calls. He would deliver babies. Appendicitis, do minor surgeries.
Andy Ockershausen: Is that why you decided to follow him into the medical world?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Absolutely.
Andy Ockershausen: ‘Cause the blood in the family.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, because of the stories of service. That resonated with me, man. I wanted to serve community.
Andy Ockershausen: You left New Jersey to come here to Howard. How many years ago was that?

Dr. Roger Mitchell Met His Wife While Attending Howard University in Early 1990s

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That was in ’92.
Andy Ockershausen: Howard first and then New Jersey, right?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s right. I’m from Howard, I mean, excuse me…I’m from Howard, too, but I’m from New Jersey, and then came to Howard for undergrad and met my wife there.
Andy Ockershausen: Is that right?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: Is she a local girl? She’s from Our Town?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: She’s a local girl. She’s from your town.
Andy Ockershausen: Fabulous. I hear these stories all the time. When I grew up, the great black schools were Lincoln and Howard.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: My grandfather went to both of them. He went to Lincoln undergrad and went to Howard Medical School.
Andy Ockershausen: I was in there somewhere.

Mitchell’s Grandfather Attended Lincoln University – Had Albert Einstein as a Professor

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: You were there. You there. Lincoln was good. Lincoln was called the Black Princeton. Albert Einstein was one of my grandfather’s professors.
Andy Ockershausen: Isn’t that crazy?
Janice Iacona Ockershausen: Now, that’s interesting!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, isn’t that crazy? Fantastic.
Andy Ockershausen: That is fantastic. Learn from nothing but the best.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Listen, that’s what we do.
Andy Ockershausen: You decided then in your career not to be in medicine for medicine’s sake but you wanted to do something different and you became a medical examiner.

Mitchell was FBI Forensic Scientist Before Medical School

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Right, because like I was telling you, I left, I got exposed to forensics through the OJ trial, and then went to the FBI. I was an FBI forensic scientist before I went to medical school.
Andy Ockershausen: Is that right?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: You’re a government employee then.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, I was a FBI forensic scientist right there on 9th Street at the J. Edgar Hoover Building.
Andy Ockershausen: The one they’ve been trying to move, Roger.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: The one they’ve been trying to move.
Andy Ockershausen: Everybody wants it to move but it ain’t moved.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It ain’t moved. I mean, that’s prime real estate.
Andy Ockershausen: Oh my god. That building’s worn out, of course.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, it’s an old building. I used to sit … Did you ever go on the FBI tour?
Andy Ockershausen: Oh yes, many years ago.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Where you go through the window and you look at the scientists behind there, doing work? Yeah, I was one of those scientists behind the … Looking under the microscope, doing the work. I did that for two years.
Andy Ockershausen: Everything’s probably electronic now.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: No, we’re still doing it. You have to look for the blood on the clothing so that’s what I did. Look for blood, look for semen, look for items of evidence on clothing, or other items of evidence, and then get them ready to process for DNA. That’s the work I did at the FBI before I got exposed to the medical examiner.
Andy Ockershausen: A busy, busy place. Didn’t they have a place down around 4th Street also in addition to that 9th Street building? I remember doing something with the FBI. I went through the 9th Street Building, watched the shooting and so forth. I think it was the Judge was the head of the FBI then.

Mitchell Worked Under the FBI Director Louis Freeh

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: Then Mueller succeeded him.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I was with Louis Freeh.
Andy Ockershausen: He went to the NFL.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, Louis Freeh. Freeh’s a Jersey guy too.
Andy Ockershausen: Louis was Secret Service.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: He was, I think. That’s right.
Andy Ockershausen: He was involved in that Penn State thing but I’m getting away from.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Let’s talk about it.
Andy Ockershausen: Let’s talk about you.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Let’s talk about Our Town.
Andy Ockershausen: You’re too important in Our Town and what you do is so incredible. Since you’ve been the Medical Examiner, the changes you have seen have been enormous, I’m sure.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: We have.
Andy Ockershausen: With the public.

DC’s Medical Examiner’s Office Awarded Full Accreditation, Nationally, Under Dr. Mitchell

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, we have. I was hired to get the office accredited, nationally accredited.
Andy Ockershausen: Were you with the FBI when they hired you?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: No, I was coming out of … I was the Chief Medical Examiner in New Jersey when they hired me.
Andy Ockershausen: For the state?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: Wow!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I was the youngest Chief Medical Examiner at the time. I was the acting State Medical Examiner for New Jersey and they came and got me. They said we built this brand new shiny building here in D.C. We want you to come and get us accredited nationally and make sure that our science and medicine is doing it properly. I came, and in the first three years, we got accredited and we’ve been nationally accredited for the first time in the history of this city.
Andy Ockershausen: That’s wonderful.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: The work that we’re doing-
Andy Ockershausen: Means so much.

DC Medical Examiner’s Office Brings Closure to Families and is Sought After Internationally

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It does because it brings closure to families. They know that the forensic medicine, how people are dying, what they’re dying from, is being done at the highest level. Now, we’re sought after internationally for our expertise.
I just got a call from Puerto Rico this morning, because they’re still doing work down there to clean up surrounding the hurricane and I got a call from them this morning asking what types of things should be purchased, what type of equipment should happen and that’s largely because of the work that we’re doing here in the city.
Andy Ockershausen: Your fame has spread, obviously.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, you know? And it’s funny because I like-
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I like “our” versus “your”. Right? ‘Cause it’s “our” fame.
Andy Ockershausen: You’re right.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Because I have about 100 people that work for me and let me tell you, the 100 people that work for me are scholars and they’re gentlemen and gentlewomen. They believe in what the community is about, so that’s what we do.
Andy Ockershausen: Roger, we’re going to take a break here. We don’t have commercials but we do need a deep breath. Talking to Roger Mitchell, Chief Medical Examiner of the greatest city in the world.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: The greatest city.
Andy Ockershausen: Washington D.C. and we’re gonna take a break here, we’ll be right back.
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Andy Ockershausen: This is Our Town and it’s Andy Ockershausen talking to Roger Mitchell. I made a mistake and said Robert one time, but I apologize. Roger, you have a big department. You’re a very, very important part of Our Town. Your department, you were mentioning 100 employees. That’s impressive.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: That’s your responsibility.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s right.
Andy Ockershausen: You gotta nurse 100 people but somebody asked a question about how did you get approved. What did you do to be accredited? How did you become accredited? Not you. How’d the city become accredited, your bureau?

On Becoming Accredited – You Need a “Recipe”

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, the office of the Chief Medical Examiner. One of the big things that is required in the office of the Chief Medical Examiner be accredited is Board certification by its physicians.
There was a time in the district’s history where we had physicians that were not Board certified to practice forensic pathology. Didn’t make them bad forensic pathologists, but they didn’t get the paper. They didn’t pass the test.
Andy Ockershausen: They didn’t get the stamp.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: They didn’t get the stamp. One of the big things was is that I brought a Board certification to that. I’m board certified in forensic pathology and then all of my physicians are board certified in forensic pathology. The other piece is the standard operating procedures.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Now,in Our Town, you got me digging down into the weeds, right? But the reality of it is, is that we all need a recipe that we follow to be able to do the work that we do. We knew how to do the work, but we didn’t have the recipe written down, so if somebody wanted to come check how we did the work, they couldn’t come check it. They would have to come talk to someone.
But to be accredited, you have to have your recipe written down. I do X because of Y. I do A because of B. And so we wrote all of those recipes down, all of those standard operating procedures and put them in a place that people could follow them.
And then the big thing. I found the office and we were getting out our autopsy reports, about 37% in 90 days. To be accredited, you have to get 90% of autopsy reports out within 90 days. That’s what we had to do. We had to create processes and streamline to be able to get 90% out within 90 days.
Andy Ockershausen: You really had to make a hard job to get it done.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: We had to move some people around, we had to make things a priority that may have not have been a priority in the past. The long and short of it now, we’re 97% in 90 days. Right, and so-
Andy Ockershausen: That’s incredible.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: And so, we’ve been here, it’ll be five years in February that we’ve been the leadership in place. I’m proud to say that we’re doing- We’re not perfect. We’re not perfect. We have things that we need to work on. There’s mistakes that we still tend to make.
Andy Ockershausen: You’re human beings! Somebody makes mistakes.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s right. And so we’re not perfect, and we’re constantly trying to build better quality systems but, we’re doing a good job.
Andy Ockershausen: Are all your people, all of your physicians permanent or do you have people that you can bring in to work on certain things? Do you have more than one person doing certain things? Can you use the private sector to help your department?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s a good question. All of our physicians are permanent. I have all permanent physicians. I have a forensic anthropologist.
Andy Ockershausen: They’re all District employees, then.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: They’re all District employees.
Andy Ockershausen: Gotcha.

Forensic Anthropologist on Staff is Unique Resource

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I have a forensic anthropologist who deals with our skeletal remains, our bones, and that is huge because I don’t know if you guys remember the story of the three women that were found in the backyard of a house not too long ago and those skeletal remains largely were ID’d because of the presence of the forensic anthropologist we have in our office.
So, we have some very unique resources that are playing a part. She’s actually down in Puerto Rico leading a contingent to, voluntarily, leading a contingent that is helping them with 57 skeletal remains down in Puerto Rico.
Andy Ockershausen: From the storms last year?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s correct.
Andy Ockershausen: Directly related to that.

DC Medical Examiner’s Office is One of the Best in Country

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Again, we’re one of the best medical examiners in the country.
Andy Ockershausen: You can bring in other people to help if it really gets busy? I don’t wanna say you’re real busy now, but this opioid thing. I’d never heard the word opioid until what, five years ago. I never knew what it was. I’m still not too sure, but I know it’s very pervasive in our society.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, it is.
Andy Ockershausen: I think Janice told you we were involved with the disposal to get rid of opioids.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s good. The pills-
Andy Ockershausen: But this has changed your job a lot, I’m sure.

How Opioids Crisis Impacts Medical Examiner’s Job

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It has and it’s changed our job in Our Town a lot, because in 2014, there was 83 opioid-related deaths in 2014. In 2017, there were 279 opioid-related deaths. Now in 2018, we project, ’cause the numbers are still coming in because it’s just January, but we’re projecting about 204 opioid-related deaths.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: But still-
Andy Ockershausen: Still way, way higher than it used to be.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Twice as much as 2014, but we’re getting a handle on it. The city is getting a handle on it, and my job is to monitor how people are dying. The issue is fentanyl, Andy. Fentanyl is about 100 times more potent than heroin or morphine which is the active component of heroin.
And it’s in our heroin supply and when that type gets in our heroin supply, some of our older users, these are older black men that have been using for maybe up to 20 to 30 years. A lot of them are veterans. They’re dealing with their post-traumatic stress, they’re dealing with access issues in our urban centers.
Andy Ockershausen: Whole litany of problems in a community-
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Whole litany of issues in a community right, in Our Town. That is why people use, but now you have this product like Fentanyl, that’s 100 times more potent. The chronic user, the user that’s dealing with this disease, can’t possibly titrate, can’t possibly use that in a way that is reliable. That’s why people are dying.
The city is doing a good job. They just established a strategic plan for opioid use disorder in the city, and we’re working to decrease and save some lives in here.
Andy Ockershausen: I know your boss is out in front on that. She’s been very up front and seeing that as a huge problem.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Absolutely.
Andy Ockershausen: Talk to me, Roger, and this is not your, you can’t do much about this, but the murder rate has also affected your department, correct?

Violence Prevention – Office of Neighborhood Safety & Engagement

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Absolutely. It’s funny because I wear multiple hats in the city.
Andy Ockershausen: I’m sure you do.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Right? Because I’m a physician, I’m also my experience is in violence prevention. I’m a violence preventionist. I understand programming surrounding violence prevention. I was part of the mayor’s Safer, Stronger advisory council. I co-chaired it along with our D.C. Department of Health’s director, Dr. Nesbitt.
We’re setting out a long view of how to decrease violence in the city. It’s hard, and we know that law enforcement can’t do it on its own. It’s not a thing that you can arrest your way out of. So, we have a new office called the Office of Neighborhood Safety & Engagement.
That office of Neighborhood Safety & Engagement is doing interrupter work, is working with young people that have engaged in violence.
Andy Ockershausen: You have a liaison with them, of course.

Gun Violence Leaves People Wounded or Injured | It’s Not Just About Fatalities

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Absolutely. I liaison with them, I provide them data and I support them in any way that they need me to support. We’re working on it. I’m also doing a study right now to see how severe the injuries are that are happening amongst these individuals to see if we’re dealing with more severe injuries-
Andy Ockershausen: I wanted to ask you that because I read about the rate of people dying but, there are a lot of people who have been wounded over the months and days and years with all that violence on the street. We kind of forget there’s a lot of wounded people out there that have problems.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: For every, you know, I think of what we call mortality or fatalities. It’s really the tip of the iceberg, Andy.
Andy Ockershausen: Correct.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: So when we have this amount of deaths, and there may be up to ten more people that are injured in a particular community. Gun violence is a real issue in urban centers and in this country, right? We’ve been talking about school shootings all over the country. Thank God we haven’t had any school shootings here in the district.
But the reality of it is, is that no matter where you come down on owning firearms, no matter where you come down on making sure that firearms are legal for our amendment rights in our Constitution, you have to realize that gun violence is a public health issue and there needs to be a way to control for it. There has to be a way to control for it.
I look at it this way, Andy, is that, you know, when people were dying from lung disease and dying from cancer, there was a big onslaught that said cigarettes had nothing to do with it. When people were dying from cardiovascular disease that were smokers, people were saying how dare you suggest that cigarettes had anything to do with lung disease and heart disease. Remember that?
Andy Ockershausen: Oh, I lived through that!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: To suggest now, that cigarettes have nothing to do with people dying from heart disease and lung disease, you’d be laughed out of the studio, because we know there’s a direct connection between cigarettes and lung disease.
Andy Ockershausen: Absolutely.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Well, there’s a direct connection between guns and the type of violence. I’ll say one more thing. The majority of gun violence in this country is not homicides, it’s suicides. It’s suicides.
Andy Ockershausen: Public health issue.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: More people are killing themselves with guns than people that are getting killed by guns. And that’s extremely important because that’s a different demographic. It’s a different set of people that are killing themselves-
Andy Ockershausen: It’s startling to me.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Than people that are killing others. And so it’s important, because gun control or, let’s say it like this because people don’t like gun control. Knowledgeable and equitable gun laws, gun safety laws, are important to save lives across the spectrum of the experience in Our Town, not just in one part of the city.
Andy Ockershausen: Not Benning Road.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Right, not 7 and 8. It’s everywhere, right?
Janice Iacona Ockershausen: What information do you get in your office from what you study is going to help that? What information do you turn over to the powers that be that can change the laws?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: So, we look at- We categorize all the deaths, all violent deaths in the District of Columbia come through my office. And when I say violent deaths, that’s homicides, suicides, accidents, undetermined baby cases. They’re all coming to my office and we issue out an annual report. That annual report puts out a GIS map.
We know where people are dying, and what they’re dying from. If we’re gonna develop prevention policy in this city, then you can utilize the data that the medical examiner puts out to know where you’re gonna set up that-
Janice Iacona Ockershausen: Education training?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That education training, where they’re gonna set up that needle exchange program, where you can set up that access to education program. You can utilize that and you can go on the website OCME.dc.gov and get the 2017 annual report. That gives you an idea of what people are dying from the in the city.

Ockershausen and WMAL Once Led Crusade to Get Guns Off the Street

Andy Ockershausen: I’m not gonna brag, but I’m gonna brag just a little bit.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Brag.
Andy Ockershausen: At one time, this radio station was so important to the Washington community, I mean, like, one out of every four people listened to WMAL.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Wow.
Andy Ockershausen: In 1971, because I was General Manager and had just gotten the job, in the late 70s it went on, I was doing editorials, live and radio. I would record them and they would go on the air.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: The first podcast.
Andy Ockershausen: One of the- My first podcast!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: He was the inventor of podcasts. Andy!
Andy Ockershausen: My crusade was get the guns off the streets.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Got it.
Andy Ockershausen: We did radio and television. Channel 7 was our company.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Let’s go.
Andy Ockershausen: WMAL Radio and TV. I was the spokesman for the effort and I read the editorials and appeared in the editorials. Get the guns off the street.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s it.
Andy Ockershausen: It wasn’t about anything that’s prevalent now. How many years ago is that? That’s 50 years ago.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Cyclical.
Andy Ockershausen: It’s still, we can’t get the guns off the streets. It drives me crazy!

Getting Guns Off the Streets Will Take Constant and Consistent Advocacy

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: What MPD is doing a good job at, and what they’re working towards, is really understanding where these guns, these illegal guns are coming from. It’s clear that they’re coming from our neighboring states like Virginia that have looser gun laws. It’s clear that the gun show loopholes that allows you to walk into a gun show and then walk out with a weapon or a series, or cache of weapons-
Andy Ockershausen: For 50 years we’ve known that!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It’s gonna take constant and consistent advocacy in this space.
Andy Ockershausen: Another 50 years.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Right? But, you can’t lose faith, right?
Andy Ockershausen: No, you gotta keep … Shout it everyday. Get the guns off the street.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: We gotta get the guns off the street and then also work in equitable access to education, economics, housing and healthcare.
Andy Ockershausen: It’s all of that, you’re right.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It’s one side of the same coin, right? Get the guns off the street and then create an environment where people don’t wanna use guns to resolve conflict.
Andy Ockershausen: When you were going to school at Howard, it’s the same problem you see now.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It was worse then-
Andy Ockershausen: I lived through that-
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It was about 400, 500 homicides a year, but we can’t take that for granted. We gotta be diligent in this work.
Andy Ockershausen: We have a niece that just finished at Johns Hopkins and she’s specializing in get the guns off the street-
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Fantastic.
Andy Ockershausen: She’s working now for the FBI or somebody.
Janice Iacona Ockershausen: The International Police Chief Association.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Oh, fantastic.
Janice Iacona Ockershausen: But that’s what her project management is-
Andy Ockershausen: She’s just out of college with a degree and going for a doctor’s degree and it’s in Public Safety.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s it.
Andy Ockershausen: Which is guns.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s what it’s about. We need all the intellects, we need all the grassroots on board, we need all the money pockets, all the people with money that listen to Our Town. They can sponsor in six, seven, and eight and really help young people make different choices in their lives.
Andy Ockershausen: The young people are gonna have to settle this because us old dogs, you’re still a young man-
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I appreciate that.
Andy Ockershausen: These young kids are gonna have to do it though, Roger. Young people coming up are gonna have to do it. What is it I read in the paper about the stop and search? There’s a furor over that in Our Town. Stop and search.

On Stop and Frisk Laws

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I don’t know if I can speak to the stop and frisk policy here in the city. I don’t know. I know that-
Andy Ockershausen: Do you know of it? I mean-
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Of course.
Andy Ockershausen: I’ve read about it, I don’t know what it is.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Functionally, there is a criticism surrounding policing that has people, based upon their age, race, and other demographics-
Andy Ockershausen: Profiling.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: There is a concern that people can get profiled and then get stopped for no reason. And so that’s a larger question surrounding institutional racism in this country.
Andy Ockershausen: I understand.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I don’t think anybody’s immune in this country from that type of work.
Andy Ockershausen: But it does affect public safety though, correct?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It could, it could, you know, and I’m not clear on how prevalent-
Andy Ockershausen: How it works, I don’t know either.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I’m not clear about how prevalent it is here in the city.
Andy Ockershausen: It’s a new thing. It’s the first time I’ve read it. I’ve read about it in New York and they stopped it. That’s the first I’ve heard of it in Our Town. This is Andy Ockershausen, Our Town in a wonderful, wonderful discussion with Roger Mitchell, the Chief Medical Examiner for the capital city of the world. Our Town.
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Announcer: You’re listen to Our Town with Andy Ockershausen. Brought to you by Best Bark Communications.
Andy Ockershausen: This is Our Town. This is Andy Ockershausen. I’m laughing ’cause I’m enjoying our conversation with Roger Mitchell, he’s the Chief Medical Examiner of the greatest city in the world. I keep repeating that ’cause it sounds good.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, it does.
Andy Ockershausen: I envy your job ’cause you’re really on the pulse of our community and Our Town.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: We are, yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: That’s fabulous and the people respect you so much. I know that because that’s how we got together, through a third party. You’re the man!

On Serving the Community and Becoming a Minister

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Listen, listen, we don’t take that for granted. To serve this community, be able to serve Washington D.C. is not something that anyone should take for granted. I know I don’t. It’s a true privilege. It’s a true blessing. We’re using this language on the break surrounding blessings.
I’m a minister in a local church-
Andy Ockershausen: I knew that, we’re gonna get to that!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, and you know, I couldn’t let it go without bringing it up. The church and you gotta know this church ’cause you’re Our Town. New Bethel Baptist Church, Walter Fontroy’s old church.
Janice Iacona Ockershausen: Oh yeah, we know him.
Andy Ockershausen: A very, very dear friend of mine from the old days.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Absolutely. Dexter Nutall is our pastor. I’m one of his ministers. Just took over the prison ministry for the church, and the work that we’re doing there, to continue to serve this community is extremely important.
Andy Ockershausen: Where did you get your training for the ministry?
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: So, I trained under him, Dexter Nutall and I got licensed-
Andy Ockershausen: You didn’t got to college. . .
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: No, I didn’t. I got licensed under him and I’m actually applying for seminary right now. I’ll be going to seminary in the Fall. It’ll be an online course, but yeah, I’m going to seminary to really, really do this work because it’s not enough for me just to count them.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Right- It’s not enough for me just to speak to families. It’s extremely important for me to be on sides where we can really promote hope in a way that frees people so that we can make the best choices in this city.
Ken Hunter After this, it’s aerospace engineering and then nuclear physics, right?
Janice Iacona Ockershausen: And then Hollywood!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Listen, listen…you know-
Andy Ockershausen: Your life story!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: On the break, we talked about it. You guys can’t see me on the podcast but they said I look young, and the reality of the thing is I said I was a throwback. Back in the day when there was no TV and there was no distractions, men and women of any caliber read. Right?

Read. Write. Contemplate. Communicate. | Time to Get Back to That

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: They read, they wrote, they contemplated, they had relationships. It’s time to get back to that.
Andy Ockershausen: You’re so right because there’s a whole generation out there has no idea what you’re talking about when you’re talking about reading. They don’t have it in their hand. They don’t know what a book is!
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It’s hard. It’s hard.
Andy Ockershausen: Your kids are gonna feel that too, if they haven’t already.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: As we say that on a podcast.
Andy Ockershausen: Everybody’s on the digital age.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It’s important and that’s really the only way you can have capacity is if you de-plugged and really take the time to read, to write, to contemplate, that’s where you start getting inspiration to do things that you have no business doing. Like living to 90 years old and having a podcast. I mean, how great is that?
Listen, I wanna come to the party-
Andy Ockershausen: I’ve got a young wife! She’s the one that keeps me alive, brother! That’s my plan. 100, going for 100.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Why not?
Andy Ockershausen: My brother did 101, so if he did it, I can do it.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: It’ll be 102 for you.
Andy Ockershausen: One of the things that impresses me about you is you’re a 20th century guy but you’re really a 22 century guy.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Oh, man.
Andy Ockershausen: You grew up learning with books and pencils and erasers.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I did.
Andy Ockershausen: And paper.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: That’s right.
Andy Ockershausen: This new generation doesn’t have that anymore. I think that’s sad.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Well, you know, it may be sad but I’m inspired ’cause I have three children and my-
Andy Ockershausen: They test you everyday!

How Dr. Mitchell Inspires His Children

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: My three children, my 12 year old, my 14 year old, my 16 year old, they have something that we never had. They have a global worldview of themselves. There’s something to be said about that empowerment that comes with having a global worldview.
They know that they can make a difference in a moment. So, I instill in my kids, even though it’s different, I instill in my kids that they can make a difference in the space that they are and they might not need a pencil to do it. But I inspire them to do it-
Andy Ockershausen: Anything’s possible. I don’t put it down, I’m just saying, I like … I see kids apply for jobs and talk to them. They hardly can write their name. To me, that’s sad.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, it is. If indeed that’s the case.
Andy Ockershausen: If you can write, you can read. That’s what makes a difference.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: We know that reading and we talked about violence earlier-
Andy Ockershausen: You can write that way, too.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Of course, and reading is the number one predictor of whether or not you’re going to have good outcomes.
Andy Ockershausen: Always.

On the Need to Promote Literacy in Our Town

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Always. The ability to read and read at a high level is that. Literacy is something that, in Our Town, we need to make sure that we promote.
Andy Ockershausen: Roger, I can’t thank you enough for what you have brought to Our Town and what you’re continuing to bring. You brought it forward.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Wow.
Andy Ockershausen: You have done so much for that department that people know about it and they tell me about it and that’s you. That’s Roger Mitchell. It’s not the department, it’s you.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, I like to say that and I like the name of-
Andy Ockershausen: I’ll tell the mayor when I see him.

It’s Not Me., It’s Them Doing Fantastic Work

Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Listen, I like the name of your program because it’s Our Town and it’s definitely not my medical examiner’s office.
Andy Ockershausen: Our office.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Our people there are doing fantastic work and it’s them doing the work. My job is to come on shows like this while they’re at work and tell people how good it is. But what I won’t do is take all the credit because, it’s them that are doing the work.
Andy Ockershausen: You’re a wonderful man, Roger. Thank you so much for being on Our Town. We will stay with you and anything we can do to help you in our own little way.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Absolutely.
Andy Ockershausen: But there used to be a powerful way to do it but we are with you all the way.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I appreciate you.
Andy Ockershausen: We gotta get the guns off the streets.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yes, sir.
Andy Ockershausen: I’ll never stop saying that, never stop doing, but Roger Mitchell, and you got a wonderful family. Roger, thank you so much for being here.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: I appreciate it.
Andy Ockershausen: Thank you so much for being you.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Thank you, brother.
Andy Ockershausen: And your family. We’re gonna spread this word all over to everybody.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Bless you.
Andy Ockershausen: We’re gonna do something about the opioid too.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Yeah, we’ll do it all.
Andy Ockershausen: We’re not quitting, Roger.
Roger Mitchell, Jr, MD: Let’s start. My brother.
Andy Ockershausen: This is Our Town. This has been a wonderful conversation with Roger Mitchell. What a great thing that Our Town has Roger Mitchell.
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