George Allen on “learning to be yourself” in politics after he switched out his boots for wingtips and lost his first election~
“The best advice I ever got was from a guy named George Beard who was chewing tobacco at the Green County Fair. He was a delegate from Culpeper, and I said ‘Oh, you’re chewing tobacco here in public.’ He says, ‘You got to be yourself.’ There’s no better advice.”
Andy Ockershausen: This Our Town. This is Andy Ockershausen and I’ve known our next guest for close to 50 years. It goes so fast. His name is a household name to anyone who as ever lived in Our Town for even a few years. His father was a big deal in Our Town, and our guest was an even bigger name in politics and government. He was a senator, governor, member of the House of Representatives. I mean, I don’t know what he hasn’t done. He wasn’t born here, but his impact on the State of Virginia and Our Town was legendary. Welcome Governor, Senator, Felix Allen.
What’s in a Name? – George Allen Legacy in Our Town
George Allen: George Allen.
Andy Ockershausen: George.
George Allen: Felix was my grandfather’s name.
Andy Ockershausen: I knew that. I met your grandfather when they came to a game. I’ll get into that with you in a minute. And your grandmother. George that’s incredible. I was wondering, were you a junior and Janice found you as Felix. I love the name.
George Allen: Yeah. My father’s middle name was Herbert so –
Andy Ockershausen: Yes. I knew that.
George Allen: So we had different middles names so –
Andy Ockershausen: George H. Allen.
George Allen: Yep.
Andy Ockershausen: Your dad was certainly a legend to Our Town and what he did for us, and to have you come along … It’s just unbelievable George. The name means so much in Washington. I think that name helped you get elected a couple of times didn’t it?
George Allen: Yeah. Bunch of Redskins fans. Cowboy fans would always give me a hard time with it, and fortunately the Redskins when my father was there, never had a losing season and he brought in a winning tradition for the Redskins. And if it weren’t for my father going to the Washington Redskins, I would not be in Virginia. To be honest with you –
The Road to Our Town
Andy Ockershausen: I can understand that. But you were born in Whittier and your dad was coaching there?
George Allen: Yeah. My parents were married in Sioux City, Iowa and his first head coaching job was at Morningside College. He’s originally from Michigan near Detroit –
Andy Ockershausen: I knew that.
George Allen: And any rate, I guess during the period my wife … My wife. My mother was pregnant with me during that period, then I was dropped in Whittier. And so he was head coach at Whittier College. They have the worst, least fierce name for a team. The Poets. The Fighting Poets. And you know we’re just like pathetic. What we’re going to kill you with rhyme. But that team –
Andy Ockershausen: But that was Richard Nixon’s school
George Allen: Yeah Richard Nixon went … He wasn’t there at the same time as my father, but that’s when they first became acquainted with one another. The other great thing at Whittier is in their conference, they played Occidental and Jack Kemp –
Andy Ockershausen: Quarterback.
George Allen: Was a quarterback at Occidental. And out of the people who motivated me to get involved in politics, the most two inspirational people to me were Ronald Reagan, and Jack Kemp. And Kemp coming from the world of football really was very consistent with my way of looking at a meritocracy. And some of this you reflect on later in life, but growing up in football myself and my father’s teams, and they were all very close.
Andy Ockershausen: You part of it. The whole team.
George Allen: Yeah. And even with the Bears. Those were first training camps when my father was an assistant coach with the Bears and from second to eighth grade we lived in Illinois. But he was also –
Andy Ockershausen: George Halas was there.
George Allen: Yeah. Papa Bear. And he was a scout, and every Christmastime we’d be on the road. We knew … Stay at the Brenda Lee Hotel near Chattanooga, nick at Jack’s Landing. Had the best firecrackers you could buy and we’d always be somewhere in the South, somewhere taking route 41 and all those players though were … Some from Tennessee. Some from Southern Emory.
Andy Ockershausen: Memories, memories.
George Allen: Different races, different religions. None of that mattered. What mattered is could you help the team win?
Andy Ockershausen: That sounds like your dad.
George Allen: Well but that’s what we should have in our society. A meritocracy.
Andy Ockershausen: It should be. You’re absolutely … Now I want to stop you because, I don’t know whether your mother told me, or father, but the fact that he pursued her long distance. She was not living in the US correct?
A Love Story – George F. Allen’s Folks
George Allen: Correct. They met … My mother’s from Tunisia. North Africa. And all the World War II stories are from her and my grandfather being incarcerated by the Nazis. Fortunately survived it. And then after the war, she had some friend who lived in Sioux City. And so after the war she goes to Sioux City and meets my father. And so to court her he had to go all the way to Tunis, which was still a French protectorate then and talk to Felix Lombroso and ask her hand. And in fact, my mother knew so little of football … My father, as you know Andy, he’s always diagramming plays and so he’s actually at the table with her and she said he was doing these diagrams and you had X’s and O’s and arrows. You know. And all this, and she thought these were somehow love notes that he was doing, but it’s really receivers running –
Andy Ockershausen: His love for her I’m sure.
George Allen: Well, love of her but also for football just thinking of diagramming plays, and she thought these were some sort of love notes.
Andy Ockershausen: And the fact that this legendary football coach spent much time in travel to convince her to marry him, and then leave Tunis and go to Sioux City. That’s a long way brother.
George Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sioux City, Iowa –
Andy Ockershausen: And then you.
George Allen: Well my mother being from Tunis, Tunisia, which is on the Mediterranean –
Andy Ockershausen: Gorgeous.
George Allen: Yeah it is very beautiful and all of that, but it’s not the … Sioux City, Iowa’s about landlocked in the middle of the country. Do have the Missouri River, but it’s not quite the same as the Mediterranean. But obviously they were deeply in love.
Andy Ockershausen: Obviously. And he convinced her and she just told me the story. And then you were born and with the Bears you were a ball boy, and fooling around with the Bears when George was the … He ran the defense and they won the championship.
George Allen: Right.
Andy Ockershausen: I remember that –
George Allen: I remember. December 29th, 1963. I was freezing on the sidelines against a brick wall, the Bears played at Wrigley Field then. And they –
Andy Ockershausen: And Billy Wade was the quarter back.
George Allen: Yep. Bill Wade from Vanderbilt. He scored two touchdowns on quarterback sneaks. They were set up by the defense, and they had five interceptions and two fumble recoveries in that game and they won 14 to 10. And the Giants had a great offense. Del Shofner, Gifford, Y.A Tittle and so forth, but the defense won it. And my father as defensive coach got the game ball –
Andy Ockershausen: Yeah that’s right. The players all knew. He designed a plan to put … to thwart the dreaded New York Giants.
George Allen: Yeah. We should say dreaded as opposed to other adjectives we use to describe that team.
Los Angeles Rams
Andy Ockershausen: And obviously from that experience the league says “This guy’s a head coach,” and the Rams hired him. And who was the Ram … Dan –
George Allen: Dan Reeves.
Andy Ockershausen: Dan Reeves owned the Rams.
George Allen: Actually, my father was in … It was Christmastime. We’d be on the road, scouting and they still had the AFL then started. And so –
Andy Ockershausen: How many kids? Just you or . . .
George Allen: No no no. We had … By then, no all four.
Andy Ockershausen: All four of them were born.
George Allen: Me, Greg, Bruce, and Jennifer’s the youngest.
Andy Ockershausen: Jennifer the baby.
George Allen: She was just a couple years old. But he’d always load us up in our Ford Country Squire and we’d go scouting. And if you drafted players, you wanted to sign them. Gale Sayers. My father signed Sayers, and Dick Butkus, and all that –
Andy Ockershausen: He just died recently did he not? Gale Sayers? No, he got … He didn’t die but he was diagnosed with some disease that’s absolutely fatal and they can’t stop it.
George Allen: No.
Andy Ockershausen: I just saw that in the paper. That great name –
George Allen: Well but the point is the other league, the AFL, would want to sign them. So we were down in New Orleans when Dan Reeves called my father. And we were there for the Sugar Bowl that was on January 1st, and called him asked him to be head coach, and I mean it was just a great New Year’s celebration in New Orleans. Our whole family and all that. But then Halas, wanting to be so, persnickety let’s say, about contracts said “I’m not going to let you -”
Andy Ockershausen: Wouldn’t let him loose.
George Allen: Wouldn’t let him go. So then we lived in Deerfield which was north of the city.
Andy Ockershausen: I know Deerfield.
George Allen: It’s a different county. And at any rate, so there’s this service or process, we kept the lights off at the house while somebody’s out in their car smoking a cigarette, but we didn’t want to answer the door to accept the legal process. So Halas takes my … Papa Bear takes my father to court –
Andy Ockershausen: I remember that.
George Allen: Saying, “This is a breach of contract.” And it’s just an understood rule that if any assistant –
Andy Ockershausen: Move on up!
George Allen: Right. If any assistant has a chance to become head coach, you say “Go. We hate to lose you.” Just like Sean McVay who just left the Redskins to become head coach of the Rams. But you’re not going to say, “Hey you have a contract here. You can’t become head coach.” So Halas takes him to court. They have a trial. Halas wins, but he says, “You can go. It was a matter of principle to Papa Bear.” But my father was always grateful to George Halas. The first job, because he gave him a job and he was a tightwad, which is fine, and he hired to be a scout as well as a coach. And my father had been Whittier, then he got one year he was an assistant coach with the Rams under Sid Gillman. And Sid Gillman got fired so all the coaches, all the assistants get fired. And the first job I remember him having, we lived in Encino, California. I was in first grade. And he worked at a car wash, he was selling golf clubs, doing whatever he could, but I remember going to this car wash and I just thought “This was great.”
If you think of cars in the late 1950’s with all the chrome and colorful pennants, and all that. So then George Halas gave him a job and we loaded up in a 1951 Ford Victoria, there was three of us then, and took Route 66 from Los Angeles back to Chicago –
Andy Ockershausen: Back to Chicago.
George Allen: To Chicago –
Andy Ockershausen: That’s the reverse route of the old 66 song.
George Allen: Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: George those are good stories what you went through.
George Allen: But it was a great trip, and Illinois is five minutes. It’s flat, they have really good, rich soil, good people.
Andy Ockershausen: Yeah you did so…
George Allen: Nowhere near as good as Virginia.
Andy Ockershausen: Well then when he became head coach of the Rams, he moved to Palos Verdes. The family.
George Allen: Yeah. Right.
Andy Ockershausen: And I remember I visited your mother out there many many years ago and that was a magnificent place back then. Place was great too . . .
George Allen: It was a great lot. Wonderful view of what they call the South Bay inlet, and –
Andy Ockershausen: Had animals too. All kind of deer and everything.
George Allen: Yeah. There’s peacocks, and fox, and skunks. Our dogs would always find the skunks.
Andy Ockershausen: But you didn’t fall in love with Southern California enough to stay there?
Palos Verdes High School to UCLA
George Allen: No. No. Well I ended up … When my father went to the Redskins I said … Well I went to UCLA my first year, and they switched coaches there, switched the whole offense. Most of the people who were on scholarship transferred to New Mexico, or Pacific, or other colleges because they changed the offense.
Andy Ockershausen: Who was the head coach at UCLA?
George Allen: It was Prothro who recruited me.
Andy Ockershausen: Tommy Prothro.
George Allen: And then Pepper Rodgers who’s still a long time friend –
Andy Ockershausen: He was with the Redskins.
George Allen: Yeah. Still a really good friend came in, but he didn’t a pro passing offense. It was a –
Andy Ockershausen: Running game.
George Allen: Option type and I was a … We ran the LA Rams offense in my high school and under the same terminology, and all of that. And so they said “Well, you ought to look at …” I was thinking –
Andy Ockershausen: That was Palos Verdes High.
George Allen: Yeah. And I got recruited from different places. I almost went to Arizona, but I was thinking of going to Texas A&M, or others. And so we the family moves here to Virginia, to Northern Virginia, and they say “You ought to look at colleges around here.” So I was thinking of places like Tennessee, or North Carolina, and so forth, and I really hadn’t hear of the University of Virginia –
Andy Ockershausen: What?
George Allen: Because my whole frame of reference was football players.
Andy Ockershausen: I got you. Sure, that’s right.
George Allen: And there weren’t many there. They were playing from Tennessee, and –
Andy Ockershausen: Virginia was not a powerhouse.
George Allen: Places like that. Yeah. But I was interested in either getting involved in ranching, architecture, or law and I said “Well they have a good architecture school, great law school, and all this.” And Tim Temerario and –
UCLA to UVA
Andy Ockershausen: Little Tim.
George Allen: Yeah. Little Tim took me down there and I just fell in love with the architecture and the history, and just the Jeffersonian architecture and all this. And to some extent if you never went to the University of Virginia, if you hadn’t been somewhere else you wouldn’t appreciate it as much. At UCLA, everything’s … Everyone thinks it’s so glamorous. It’s just –
Andy Ockershausen: Well it is.
George Allen: Well I guess it is.
Andy Ockershausen: Very Los Angeles
George Allen: Yeah I know, but it’s all –
Andy Ockershausen: But no tradition.
George Allen: Yeah. Well, yeah. There’s a football tradition –
Andy Ockershausen: Basketball.
George Allen: And basketball was good. Bill Walton was in . . .
Andy Ockershausen: But UVA has got a tradition of statesmen.
George Allen: Yeah. But UVA it’s like a college. UCLA the buildings are … They’re fine, but there’s no architecture and this is not me. The American Institute of Architects said it’s the best example of American architecture.
Andy Ockershausen: And the law school is world class too at UVA.
George Allen: Yeah. And so I ended up going to law school, but that was a long process. I buckarooed on ranches out West in Nevada near Winnemucca, Idaho and realized the only way you could make money in farming or ranching is with volume. You need a lot of cattle. We had 3,800 head of cattle in this ranch in Northern Nevada –
Andy Ockershausen: But it wasn’t enough anymore.
George Allen: Well, no they can make money but to do it you need a lot of money to buy … To have that land and have all that cattle which I didn’t have. Then architecture ended up with too much math to it. So I ended up saying, “I’m going to focus on law.” But they don’t have pre-law at the University of Virginia, so I majored in history. Then –
Andy Ockershausen: Wise man.
George Allen: Well people who know. . .
On Why History is So Important
Andy Ockershausen: Knowing history’s everything I think.
George Allen: You’re right Andy. There’s so many folks who … Young people … I work with Young America’s Foundation. I’m the Reagan Ranch Presidential Scholar, and they focus on young people.
Andy Ockershausen: That’s something we’re going to get to. That’s amazing.
George Allen: And people think, “Oh take these political science courses,” but no. Take history. Understand the foundation of our country. Understand mistakes that were made, the principles, the philosophy, you can hire these political consultant buzzards to do all your tactical stuff, but as a leader you need to be grounded in a certain philosophy –
Andy Ockershausen: George.
George Allen: Of government and you get that from studying history.
Andy Ockershausen: I bet I tell 50 young people a year the very same thing. “What shall I study?” “Study history.” I don’t care what else you do… Geography, history, you got to know the world.
George Allen: Oh yeah, geography’s part of it. And the historical illiteracy, the geographical illiteracy of people … If you don’t understand history … Even in business, if you don’t know the difference between Koreans and the Japanese, you’ll never make a deal with either country if you just consider them the same.
Andy Ockershausen: And that’s a thing.
George Allen: Which they’re definitely not the same. And you learn that, and appreciate it from history and knowing history.
Andy Ockershausen: History. Absolutely. What they’ve been through. George that’s so important that you did that. I think it’s just wonderful your career started at UVA. And we’ll get back … We’re going to take a break here and talk to you about where you went from UVA.
George Allen: Okay.
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Announcer: You’re listening to Our Town.
Andy Ockershausen: This is Our Town. Andy Ockershausen talking to George F. Allen about his career and his titles. The man has done everything possible to get people’s attention and done a great job for the United States of America, and particularly for the state of Virginia. But to go from law school back into the human rights as it is, how did you get into politics?
George Allen: Well, it’s interesting. I was … I played football on the UVA team, and then in law school I played rugby, and in the summers buckarooed on ranches out West.
Andy Ockershausen: Wow.
George Allen: But I wasn’t involved in … I told you I majored in history. I wasn’t in the College Republicans or anything like that, but I loved debating and arguing. Well when we first had moved out to California, going back on all of this in the context –
Andy Ockershausen: Moved out in the 60s . . .
George Allen: 1966. Ronald Reagan got elected governor in 1966. Ronald Reagan would come to the Rams practices and stand there shoulder to shoulder with my father examining the players and the strategies. And again, growing up in a football family I said, “Well here’s a politician who knows what’s important. Football.”
Andy Ockershausen: Midwestern guy too, right?
George Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Midwestern . . .
Andy Ockershausen: Eureka.
A Call from Governor Ronald Reagan
George Allen: Yeah. Eureka College is where Ronald Reagan went, but … So I then followed what Ronald Reagan did as governor and really liked it. So when I got to Virginia, I liked debating and arguing, and at any rate I get a call while … And this is in late 1975, from Governor Reagan and asked me to head up Young Virginians for Reagan. And I said, “Well Governor that’s a great honor. I know nothing about organized politics. Not in the College Republicans or any of that.” I said, “I do go around telling everyone what a great job you did as governor of California and your ideas would be great for America.” And he says, “Well, just keep doing that.” And so those of us … So I accepted, and that’s what got me involved, and we were the rebels for Reagan against President Ford. But we won Virginia. He didn’t win the nomination, but then –
Andy Ockershausen: That got him though the national stage though, going against Gerry Ford.
George Allen: Right. And I –
Andy Ockershausen: Another Midwesterner.
George Allen: Yeah. Michigan. And any rate that’s what got me involved, and just people eventually asked me to run for office. Which I did and lost the first time. And I eventually won and actually held the same seat that Thomas Jefferson had in the House of Delegates.
Andy Ockershausen: Wow. And guy gave you bad advice the first time too. Right? He said, “Get rid of the boots.”
George Allen: Gosh Andy you remember everything. Yeah, that’s right. They said “You got to get rid of those big shiny belt buckles and stop wearing boots.” So I bought me a pair of stinking wingtips and I’d ruined my right knee in the alumni football game in the Spring, and ended up with blood clots and all this. But, at any rate I lost that election. I never wore those stinking shoes again. I gave them to some young man. I’m wearing boots –
Andy Ockershausen: Boots, and doing commercials about ‘em now!
Sage Advice – Be Yourself
George Allen: Yeah. Well, the best advice I ever got was from a guy named George Beard who was chewing tobacco at the Green County Fair. He was a delegate from Culpeper, and I said “Oh, you’re chewing tobacco here in public.” He says, “You got to be yourself.” There’s no better advice I’ve ever got from anyone, and it’s what I tell others. Be yourself. Don’t be a phony, don’t try to put on airs.
Andy Ockershausen: People take you at what you are –
George Allen: Exactly.
Andy Ockershausen: . . . and they don’t.
George Allen: Yeah. It’s hard enough to do without trying to be a phony.
Richmond, VA – House of Delegates
Andy Ockershausen: Absolutely. But that propelled you into the House of Delegates.
George Allen: Yep.
Andy Ockershausen: In Richmond of course.
George Allen: Well that … Yeah. That’s where the state … But my district was Albemarle County which is outside of Charlottesville –
Andy Ockershausen: Gorgeous place too.
George Allen: And Nelson County which was … Remember the show the Waltons. That’s Nelson County.
Andy Ockershausen: That’s right.
George Allen: And then Albemarle is obviously Thomas Jefferson’s home. And so I was nine years in the House of Delegates, and then there was a . . .
Andy Ockershausen: Were you commuting or did you move to Richmond?
George Allen: No, we lived on a log house, on a gravel road, in the foothills of the Blue Ridge in between Earlysville and Free Union.
Andy Ockershausen: So, would you go –
George Allen: But for the two months you’re in session, I’d rent a –
Andy Ockershausen: two sessions. . .
George Allen: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: Just rent a place.
George Allen: Yeah, just hotel . . .
Andy Ockershausen: And you had been married to a young lady from UVA, correct? Wasn’t she a student?
Susan Brown Allen
George Allen: No. Susan went to the University of South Carolina. She’s a Gamecock.
Andy Ockershausen: She went out of state?
George Allen: But her … Yeah. Her parents lived … Her parents actually lived in Northern Virginia for a while. Her father had 20 years in the Marines, but two tours of duty –
Andy Ockershausen: She was a . . . Right?
George Allen: Two tours of duty in Vietnam, and they lived out in Crosse which is Western Albemarle. She was actually a student at South Carolina. Her parents liked me, that’s about the only girl I ever met who’s parents liked me. And at any rate they got her to fill out an absentee ballot. I won that first election by 25 votes after the recount.
Andy Ockershausen: Wow.
George Allen: It was 18 at the election. That was a fun election by the way. My father was down campaigning with us and I had an old building built in 1814 was my law office, and rented out space. I’d renovated lot of it myself, and so forth. So we’re waiting for the results coming in and the last precincts were in Nelson County, which is rural. They’re paper ballot county –
Andy Ockershausen: Wow. I know Nelson.
Coach George Allen: It’s as Good as Beating Dallas!”
George Allen: And they’re waiting, and my father’s saying “What’d you do in the Gladstone precinct?” We were waiting for these. I was ahead, but if they voted the normal way I would end up losing. And he still, “You should have been down there another time.” I said, “Well dad, you know I can’t be . . .” “Well why didn’t you go to Montebello? I said, “I was there once, all I did … There was 45 people there. It was a trout, fish hatchery up there.” Then, so these are the ones who are waiting. These paper ballots. And so the results finally come in. I lost those Democratic voting precincts less than Republicans normally do. We won. And my father said, “Gosh. This is as good as beating Dallas.” And I was like, “Gosh, that is a big deal to my father.” So I always remember that election.
Andy Ockershausen: To your father that was the ultimate.
George Allen: Oh yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: Oh my God. So then did your mom help too? She must have been a great campaigner.
George Allen: No, my father loved the competition of campaigning and all this. My mother looked at politics as so demeaning. She would always send me articles about how unscrupulous, and unethical …She’d always say “It doesn’t matter what everyone else is doing. You know what’s right.” And she’d send these . . .
Andy Ockershausen: She knew you were right, George.
George Allen: Well, Yeah. She just wanted to make –
Andy Ockershausen: Need people like you in politics.
George Allen: Right? And you also … My mother was one who didn’t particularly like it because she had such a low regard. Now she loved Ronald Reagan, she liked Gerald Ford, Henry Kissinger, and a lot of different folks, but my father’s the one who loved the competition of politics.
Andy Ockershausen: Oh, he’s so intense.
George Allen: Yeah.
Politicians and Football
Andy Ockershausen: But I remember them, great story . . . I remember great story where Richard Nixon came to the practice when they were getting ready for the Super Bowl or what, but –
George Allen: Yeah. A playoff game.
Andy Ockershausen: But he had a lot of politicians in his life, your father did.
George Allen: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: They liked George.
George Allen: Yeah, they did. And he … Well I think a lot of leaders like the discipline of football. And you … Especially –
Andy Ockershausen: Gerald Ford certainly.
George Allen: Yeah, definitely because he played, and Ronald Reagan played, and Richard Nixon did as well. And then the others in the military with my wife when we’re going to get hitched … I want to make sure she understood what that was like. And for those who served in the military, and the trauma of that and it’s maybe in law enforcement as well. Family members are hoping for the safety, praying for the safety –
Andy Ockershausen: Absolutely.
War and Football
George Allen: Of their loved ones, and so there’s a stress and tension and worry, and a tight unit of a family that sticks together. And so the fact that Susan’s … The stories about, in those days, was reel to reel tapes. The way they’d have to communicate with their father in Vietnam and those worries that her mother had, and what she went through as a … Well she’s gone through … Our stress was different. Football was obviously different and less consequential.
Andy Ockershausen: It’s stress. Stress is stress.
George Allen: Right. And that’s important because in the world of politics, it’s vicious, and delay of game, and crackback blocks, and unsportsmanlike conduct are just kind of part of the bump and run of politics. And so … And it’s become even less easy.
Andy Ockershausen: George you kept getting in deeper and deeper with Susan.
George Allen: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: I mean from the House of Delegates, to become Governor.
House of Delegates to Governor of Virginia
George Allen: And Susan was a great First Lady. And she focused on breast cancer and tourism.
Andy Ockershausen: Your time in Richmond must have been great.
George Allen: Well it was, and we’ve accomplished about 95 –
Andy Ockershausen: You done a lot of things.
George Allen: Yep. The welfare reform, the truth and sentencing, abolishment of parole. In Northern Virginia some of the businesses we got in, the first semi-conductor fab out in the Manassas area was Dominion. It’s not Micron. I remember the fellow from New York who was heading up the IBM side. The other was Toshiba. And he said, “You know, 120 years ago the North and South were fighting here. Now we have the East and West.” East of Toshiba, IBM of the West, joined together to make the fastest, smallest, semi-conductor chips in the world.” I thought, that’s a great historical analogy of advancement and progress with it. And getting Oracles East Coast campus here, working with Maryland and DC on this Woodrow Wilson bridge. I wanted the biggest bridge that we could possible build so that it’s not obsolete after a few years, and worked with Maryland and DC to get that done.
Andy Ockershausen: I lived through the years in the Board of Trade because were very much in favor of that bridge, and we needed it desperately, and you brought them together. And we –
George Allen: Well everyone worked together.
Andy Ockershausen: Just a great thing for our community that could work together.
George Allen: Yeah. And that’s . . .
Andy Ockershausen: Metro’s having the problems now George.
George Allen: Right.
Andy Ockershausen: Getting them all to work together. And yet Northern Virginia would die without Metro. So would Maryland. I mean it’s just such a big part of Our Town I would hope that they’ll come together and compromise and get that thing redone. I hate to say redone, but it needs a full dress rehearsal to get it ready.
George Allen: Well, when I was Governor we finally came up with the plans for extending metro out to Dulles Airport, and where the stops would be and Wiehle Road, Reston. And then the key factor to all that was to have a stop in Loudoun County. And this has been a contentious issue, but Loudoun ultimately the leaders said “Yes we do want to have it there in Loudoun” as well, because I think it’ll be good for economic development. And it’ll be good also for another avenue for people to get to and from work.”
Andy Ockershausen: Oh it’s been a godsend for Northern Virginia.
George Allen: But what they have to do … I’m not going to get into this local, regional issues, but fundings one thing management’s the other. And they don’t need to gold plate everything. You want things to operate efficiently, and cleanly, and safely.
Andy Ockershausen: On time.
George Allen: Yeah. Relatively on time. But you’re never going to get –
Andy Ockershausen: You see that from a historical perspective that you have to have it, and you did so much as Governor to make that happen. And then I want to find out who … I know you only could do one term. Who told you to run for the Senate?
George Allen: Gets worse and worse.
Andy Ockershausen: Poor Susan. This Our Town. It’s Andy Ockershausen. We’re talking to George Allen. The man has been everything a man could be in his life. I want to find out what he’s going to do next.
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Announcer: You’re listening to Our Town, with Andy Ockershausen. Brought you by Best Bark Communications.
George and Andy Tangentially
Family History and Philosophy
Andy Ockershausen: This is Andy Ockershausen and this is Our Town. I’m talking to George Allen about his family. One of the things I remember so vividly George was your grandmother and grandfather. They were two French … They didn’t speak English like normal … “What in the world is this?” And your mother introduced me to them and they sat in a booth a couple of times. And what a delightful heritage for you to have. Your grandfather’s in the wine business. Is he not?
George Allen: Yeah he was wine importer and he was a very successful businessman in Tunis, Tunisia. Had other family members who had olive trees, and we’d always have great olive oil sent to us. In fact, Susan bought some olive oil from Trader Joe’s or some place, and it was from Tunisia. And so, we use it and I said, “Gosh. That’s the taste I remember as a kid.” Because my mother when she put it in salad and all that, or if you had earaches somehow olive oil in your ears would somehow . . .
Andy Ockershausen: That’s right.
George Allen: Oil and garlic? Well she didn’t put … Her nickname was “Garlic” because she would put a lot of garlic in everything.
Andy Ockershausen: She was a great lady.
George Allen: She was. Feisty as could be.
Andy Ockershausen: But George, your mother would have been proud of you and everything you did, but maybe she could have said in politics going to Senate. Maybe sticking your neck out a little too far. You’ve done so much.
George Allen: Well she would have said the greatest blessing in my life is Susan and our three children.
Andy Ockershausen: I’m sure of that.
George Allen: And that’s, I think, for any of your listeners who have children, that’s your greatest legacy.
Andy Ockershausen: Always.
George Allen: And we have three great children. Our oldest daughter’s going to get married this Fall in Albemarle County to a fine young gentleman from Portland, Maine. Forrest is doing great with the Military Officer’s Association. And our youngest, Brooke, is a rookie at the University of Tennessee.
Andy Ockershausen: Wow.
College Football, the Hokies, and the SEC
George Allen: And Rocky Top. Watched her on TV this morning. They had the World’s Largest Human T.
Andy Ockershausen: I saw something on that on Channel 4 this morning.
George Allen: Yeah, exactly. NBC.
Andy Ockershausen: Yeah.
George Allen: So we got up early to watch, see if we could see Brooke.
Andy Ockershausen: I don’t know what they were doing.
George Allen: Well they –
Andy Ockershausen: But there was a big crowd in the stands though. That’s …
George Allen: Well the stands there. That stadium holds over 102,000.
Andy Ockershausen: I’ve seen it.
George Allen: Oh, it’s just great. When that band strikes up Rocky Top. If that doesn’t stir you up, you’re dead.
Andy Ockershausen: And Janny and I . . .We went to that part of Tennessee and we run over to the river, and I took her around the stadium, and it was all football season where the park the boats and people come by boat . . .
George Allen: Yeah. The Volunteer Navy.
Andy Ockershausen: That’s it.
George Allen: Hundreds of them on game day.
Andy Ockershausen: And 100,000, 110,000 people. They come out of the mountains down there, don’t they?
George Allen: The come … Yeah. Out of the Smokies and everywhere else. Yeah it’s just great. We went down on game … There was national college game day when they came back and beat Florida.
Andy Ockershausen: Oh my God.
George Allen: And Susan I went to that battle at Bristol where Tennessee played Virginia Tech, and it was 156,990. It was America …
Andy Ockershausen: Motor Speedway, right?
George Allen: Yeah. Yeah. And I’ve been there. I’ve been the Grand Marshall for the Food City 500. Go through the Dale Earnhardt Gate. It’s just great. And it was the largest crowd to see any football game, any time. The halftime show was just great. The Pride of the Southland marching band goes out there. They play Rocky Top. And then, which is great in itself, but then they have Lee Greenwood sing God Bless the USA, choreographed to fireworks going off.
Andy Ockershausen: 156,000 people.
George Allen: Yeah. And it was just … And it was on September 9, September 10th right before 9/11. And every … They had American flag, you had the cards, and so they had American flag around the entire stadium, and it really was just such –
Andy Ockershausen: Spectacular show. Great television show.
George Allen: Yeah, I guess it was. We were watching up there.
Andy Ockershausen: It was, I watched it on . . .
George Allen: It was just America, and Americans at their best. The patriotism, and the enthusiasm, the Virginia Tech fans, the Tennessee fans, it’s just … There was no better place to be in the universe than … As far as I was concerned.
Andy Ockershausen: And we all know the Tech people are a little different, right?
George Allen: They have … Well, I think Tech has …
Andy Ockershausen: Hokies.
George Allen: Well, the Hokies they have really as far as football, they’re fans are fantastic.
Andy Ockershausen: How did they … And they travel well too don’t they?
George Allen: Oh they do. That’s why it was great to have that at the Bristol Motor Speedway, it’s about equidistant from Knoxville and Blacksburg.
Andy Ockershausen: And there’re fans in both states for the speedway.
George Allen: And those Tech fans …Lane Stadium beginning of those games are all jumping up and down. Oh it’s just … It’s just great energy.
Andy Ockershausen: So you’ve seen it all. You’ve seen it from the pro side. Now you’ve seen it … The college football spirit is just unbelievable in the South.
George Allen: Yeah. You’re right. You’re exactly right Andy. I’ll say there’s the NFL, then there’s the SEC, and there’s college football. The facilities that they have … Tennessee, and I know it’s the same at undoubtedly at Georgia, in Alabama, and LSU, and Ole Miss. Their practice facility, they have an indoor practice facility there but it’s better than the Redskins, right next to it’s an outdoor one, and obviously 102,000 seat stadium. And the spirit is just fantastic in the SEC.
Andy Ockershausen: And it comes back every year George. No matter win or lose, those fans come back.
George Allen: Yeah.
From Governor to U.S. Senator
Andy Ockershausen: They’re supporting their team. But now, in your career in the Senate you got a lot of things done, and I’m sure there are a lot of things you couldn’t get done. But when you were there was it a Republican majority ever?
George Allen: It was both.
Andy Ockershausen: You had both sides.
George Allen: It was switching back and forth. When I left we had a Republican majority when I left. I guess we didn’t. But the … I was there. Got elected in 2000, and came in in 2001 and then soon thereafter we got hit with 9/11. And the country was unified for about a year after that. And then it reverted to the usual factions and so forth. That was …
Andy Ockershausen: Friction.
George Allen: Yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: Right. Reverted to the friction.
George Allen: Well there’s friction. There’s nothing wrong with friction of ideas, I mean that’s the competitiveness of –
Andy Ockershausen: If you get some progress out of it.
Bipartisanship on Capitol Hill
George Allen: Yeah, and I always one … I was able to work on a bipartisan basis with issues that I cared about on technology and jobs, and competitiveness. And I ended up being … Actually working a lot with a fellow named Ron Wyden Senator Democrat from Oregon. And somebody said to me before the election, “You and Ron Wyden are going to team up and really get along.” I was, “Ron Wyden? He’s a Liberal Democrat.” But we worked together to keep taxes off, internet access. We worked together on the national nanotechnology initiative which is the biggest investment, and basic science.
Andy Ockershausen: And you got something done.
George Allen: Yeah. We got things done, and we didn’t agree on every issue, but you find somebody on the other side that you can agree on that issue with, and then do something. And one of the frustrating things after being Governor where you got a lot done, and really made Virginia much more vibrant and prosperous –
Andy Ockershausen: Oh, absolutely George.
George Allen: And safer, and freezing college tuition, and starting the Prince William campus for George Mason University and so forth, you know the Senate … I said, “Oh my goodness, I made more decisions in one morning than you make all week in the Senate.” And I got . . .
Andy Ockershausen: And you only had four years as Governor.
George Allen: Right. And you got to go at a full gallop.
Andy Ockershausen: You got to get it done.
George Allen: You cannot dawdle, you can’t wait. And then in the senate it just moves … I said … I got blasted for this. It’s of record, I said “It moves at the pace of a wounded sea slug.” And it’s just frustrating because you want … And I said, “Just make them vote. Make them make a decision. Don’t just -”
Andy Ockershausen: Have to get it done. No change though George, it’s still moving like a glacier now.
George Allen: Yeah. The way I look at it now –
Andy Ockershausen: Frustrating to you.
George Allen: Well right now you got a Republican President, Republican House, Republican Senate. There’s no excuse for not acting and keeping your promises that you made to the people in your state and to the country. Whether it’s … I’m not going to get into all the issues –
Andy Ockershausen: No, I understand that. What you’re saying.
George Allen: But whether it’s tax reform … And I do think the President is doing the regulatory reform which is good that he can do, not having to deal with the legislative branch. But people want –
Andy Ockershausen: See George, you’re a fountain of information because you were there. You saw it all. But you saw it from the statehouse, this inability to get along, and you saw it from inside the Senate chamber.
George Allen: Yeah you’re right Andy. And when I was Governor we got all these really historical changes made with a Democrat controlled legislature. So every one of these initiatives I had to get a Democrat member of the House and Senate to be a sponsor of it along with a Republican. And we still got it done –
Andy Ockershausen: You got it done. That’s right.
George Allen: And that’s why I like to see campaigns that are run on an agenda. Not just Republican versus Democrat, red versus blue.
Andy Ockershausen: Issues.
George Allen: What do … Exactly. Issues. What do you want to get done? Because if you win, then you have this … This is a mandate from the people. And so … And a lot of folks … You have folks like Joe Manchin, who I like, Senator from West Virginia. Democrat. He knows how the folks in West Virginia voted, and so when it gets to energy policy he’s going to be on our side. Same with Heidi Heitkamp, a good Democrat from North Dakota which is an energy producing state. So you can find those folks.
Andy Ockershausen: Speaking of energy, because I followed your career after you left the Senate. I know that you stayed in Northern Virginia, and you became a good citizen of Northern Virginia, and your kids grew up there. But you went in to the … I thought it was the energy business you were in.
Life After Politics
George Allen: Yeah, I’ve done a lot of different things in the private sector. Generally focused on energy and technology.
Andy Ockershausen: And the future.
George Allen: And the future. Exactly. And I … The principles I’ve always talked about about reasonable regulations, and competitive tax policy, and so forth I’ve done that with various companies and associations. I’m working with the National Association of Manufacturers on their competitiveness initiative. Young America’s Foundation as Reagan Ranch Presidential scholar, and using Reagan principles which are similar to mine as you might guess with it.
Andy Ockershausen: He’s a good role model.
George Allen: And also some various businesses that are involved in energy and technology, and so I’m enjoying it. And I kind of like the freedom of being outside of government.
Andy Ockershausen: You did some traveling as I recall. Don’t you travel the world? Or part of the world?
George Allen: Yeah. Well Young America’s Foundation they have these various cruises, and speak on the cruises.
Andy Ockershausen: Take Susan with you.
George Allen: Oh yeah. Yeah. They want to hear … Susan’s written a book, The Remarkable Ronald Reagan. A children’s book which is really popular. And then various folks in South Korea have asked me to come there a few times. Been to China, been to various places in Europe and so forth. So some is business related, some is related to the Young America’s Foundation. But it’s … Yeah. We’re still traveling.
Andy Ockershausen: You give the a lot, George. All that experience.
George Allen: Heck I was just speaking … I was speaking at a conference on Passive Optical Networks. This is using fiber rather than copper ethernet. It uses 10% of the space, half the energy, and is future with the enormous bandwidth of fiber compared to copper. And I was in Nashville giving a speech at a conference on health technology there at the Opryland Hotel.
On Coach George Allen, Jack Kent Cooke and the Washington Redskins
Andy Ockershausen: You’re doing so much, and from your background and your experience … I mean it’s got so much to offer. That’s why they ask you out, because you bring Susan of course. Now we haven’t discussed, nor is it the most important thing, talking to you is not the Redskins. Everybody in the world will want to talk to you about that, but we know about that. We lived with them for years as you know. Not as long as you have, but almost. In ’71 I remember at Episcopal High School, watching the first practice over there. How about that? That was when your dad first got here.
George Allen: He must of thought Episcopal High School as so great that he built Redskins park. I’m being sarcastic. Which was a novel idea in those days.
Andy Ockershausen: Oh, absolutely. That was way ahead of anybody. Because he had said something when he was with the Rams. They came and he had to practice in a dirt field by the jailhouse. And he told me this story –
George Allen: Where? In DC?
Andy Ockershausen: In DC. He said, “If we ever have … Come here again,” he says “We’re not going to practice in this place. It’s terrible.” That was a long time ago. But George it’s just so exciting what has happened to Our Town because of George Allen, because he came here with Edward Bennet Williams at the time, and they turned this town around.
George Allen: And Jack Kent Cooke who was actually a very good … He was the owner of the team.
Andy Ockershausen: Absolutely.
George Allen: That was what –
Andy Ockershausen: He was a caretaker as well.
George Allen: He was the President. Yeah, President of it because Jack Kent Cooke was out in California. He had owned the Kings, and the Lakers, and the fabulous Forum at the time.
Andy Ockershausen: He built it.
George Allen: Right. He built it. And at any rate the connection was with Jack Kent Cooke who are really good friends, even when my … Before he came to the Redskins. And so they had that good relationship.
Andy Ockershausen: Oh, I know. And one of the things I remember about Cooke that people probably forgot is he was a real renaissance man. He was something to everybody, right?
George Allen: Well he –
Andy Ockershausen: He worked at it.
George Allen: Well he was … Gosh. His diction, his knowledge, he is one of these Horatio Alger types. He’s originally from Canada selling, I think, encyclopedias.
Andy Ockershausen: Britannicas too.
George Allen: Yeah. Encyclopedia Britannica. Well if you’re out of Canada you got have something related to the monarchy.
Andy Ockershausen: The Brits.
George Allen: And then he got into the cable business really really early, and that’s where he made most of his money –
Andy Ockershausen: Big bucks.
George Allen: And he was lion of a man. I remember I went to his funeral, and I remember Jerry Jones went to that funeral. And I was governor at the time and I said, “Oh Mr. Jones it’s really nice of you to come here.” Owner of the Cowboys. And through the years Jerry Jones has been a good friend. He even did a fundraiser for me at his house outside of Dallas. Funny thing, Jerry Jones he has a pool table, and instead of stripes and solids, he has the Cowboys’ star, and the others is the Redskins’ logo. And they eight ball was a zebra on it. And so he’s a great guy and his family is. But that’s another tangent.
Andy Ockershausen: You know we’re talking about it –
George Allen: But I still think Kenny Houston’s tackle of Walt Garrison was the best ever.
Andy Ockershausen: The greatest.
George Allen: No, that was just fantastic.
Andy Ockershausen: Right at the end zone.
George Allen: Yep.
Andy Ockershausen: One of the great memorable moment, it was a sad time for your family, but your dad … I happened to be in Southern California, found out that the funeral was going to be down in … Was it in Rolling Hills? Or in Palos Verdes.
George Allen: Yeah. Rolling Hills.
Andy Ockershausen: And I went down to the funeral and one of the great, great tributes made. The guys all showed up. That is like a reunion of all his players, and it was great. And I remember the man that sang The Wind Beneath Our Wings, and that was such a memorable moment for everybody. For George … A lot of people loved George.
George Allen: Yeah. Every time I hear that song, and in fact you even bringing up chokes me up right now.
Andy Ockershausen: It does.
George Allen: And I … Those guys coming back deep . . .
Andy Ockershausen: Beautiful day.
George Allen: Well I had to speak and all of us kids did, and Deacon Jones’s … I call him the oldest brother, and big brother, and all of that –
Andy Ockershausen: I know that.
George Allen: They put a football in the casket with my father. So . . .A lot of emotion. Oh you’re right. He would have loved it. He would have loved it. But you just hope and pray that –
Andy Ockershausen: It was so important the way the players came back and the people stood with him and all the great things he did. You followed that legacy. You got a great name. But you didn’t list the Herbert. You left that out, right?
George Allen: Well I have no control over what my name would be me, much less where I was born. But –
Andy Ockershausen: But Felix is a great name because it honors your grandfather.
George Allen: Yeah it does. As a kid I didn’t like it. Between Georgie Porgie and Felix the Cat … Now you’re older and you appreciate all of that.
Andy Ockershausen: And your siblings are fine? I saw them all at a game last year, or the year before.
George Allen: Yep.
Andy Ockershausen: Jennifer was here, and Greg, of course Bruce, and you and it must have been a playoff game. The whole family was in. And it was great to see them all again. And so many great memories about your mom and she had a great life George. You’ve done a great great job as an American.
George Allen: Well I have good bloodlines, wonderful parents, and a lot of good friends. And some of the things I learned from my father, whether assembling a cabinet … He’d always say that, “I don’t want to have to coach the coaches.” So I wanted cabinet members as Governor who knew more … Knew what we needed to do. But they knew more about that specific area of transportation, or natural resources, or commerce and trade and –
Andy Ockershausen: . . . sat in that chair and said the same thing to me. I always try to hire people smarter than me.
George Allen: Yeah. You want to. You don’t want to have to … Because I remember if I was … I don’t want to have to be coaching the coaches. And you want your . . . you’re a stronger team. If you have people who have their own strengths, and at any rate you learn a lot from sports, and from football. You get knocked down you get back up. I have my father’s posters on my wall on consistency and keep fighting. And you do have to have that fighting spirit, and you don’t brood over mistakes, you learn from them, you get back up, and you keep fighting.
Andy Ockershausen: Well we had a sports guy that worked for us, you might remember his name. Ken Beatrice.
George Allen: Oh yeah. That is great.
Andy Ockershausen: And your father would go round and round on it, but it was so great your dad actually did a coaching show with us. One of the first ones in the country. And he got along with Ken. I think he got along with everybody.
George Allen: Yeah well Ken Beatrice was really really special. And my father would get along with … My father would appreciate sports people who were knowledgeable.
Andy Ockershausen: Yeah, and worked at it.
George Allen: Yeah. And actually knew what they were talking about .
Andy Ockershausen: Ken worked 12 to 18 hours a day every day.
George Allen: Oh yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: He drove us crazy, but he worked.
George Allen: Oh yeah.
Andy Ockershausen: And your father admired that.
George Allen: Oh absolutely. One of the best.
Andy Ockershausen: Well George, good luck to you in everything you’re doing and we’re so proud of you, and I’m glad you’re in Northern Virginia and you’re still part of Our Town. And we consider Mount Vernon and everything out that way, Quantico’s Our Town too. And the Marines are Our Town.
George Allen: You’re just saying it all. You might as well get some of West Virginia too. Take Harper … get Harper’s Ferry too.
Andy Ockershausen: Well they used to have gambling and the only one to have. Now everybody’s got gambling. So we can’t do that.
George Allen: Well we’re not going to get into that.
Andy Ockershausen: UVA will never have it, right?
George Allen: Virginia?
Andy Ockershausen: I don’t think so.
George Allen: Well, we’ll see. I don’t think it’s as novel. That location at National Harbor, what a great location if you’re going to … I’m not … I wasn’t one who advocated it, but what a great location.
Andy Ockershausen: MGM. Is that incredible?
George Allen: Yeah. Yeah. But it’s a great location for DC and it’s easy across the river. Across the Woodrow Wilson bridge there.
Andy Ockershausen: That you worked on.
George Allen: However, people should go to Old Town Alexandria for historical –
Andy Ockershausen: History. Absolutely.
George Allen: A historical place.
Andy Ockershausen: George Felix Allen.
George Allen: If they have any money after they were at MGM.
Andy Ockershausen: You’re a great American and a great friend, and I thank you. And I would like to get this … At the end of this football season, maybe next year, to get your brother because he’s the one that came after you for me if you remember.
George Allen: I don’t know how it all went. . . .has gone after all of them.
Andy Ockershausen: But Bruce was so happy to be back on WMAL.
George Allen: Oh, Bruce is happy to be back on … And I think all the Redskins fans are because of the strong signal because –
Andy Ockershausen: And the chemistry is there. It’s history.
Washington Redskins back on WMAL
George Allen: Well it’s history. The main thing the fans care about, can I hear … Can I hear –
Andy Ockershausen: Can I hear in the car, right?
George Allen: Larry and Chris Cooley, and so forth broadcasting the game. But Andy, you’re a genuine hero of this community and thank you for what you’ve done to inspire and motivate people, put a cheer in their heart, a smile in their eyes. And you really are a treasure for the DC area, for Northern Virginia, Maryland, West Virginia, and heck anybody in the world that knows you they’ll say we love Andy O.
Andy Ockershausen: My wife made me. She’s the one who came up with Our Town. And we have almost 100 people now recorded and they all been there.
George Allen: That’s great.
Andy Ockershausen: You’ll be invited to a special kickoff and what we’re going to do for Our Town is legendary. And thank you so much George Allen.
George Allen: Thank you Andy.
Andy Ockershausen: Give my love to Susan, and we’ll pass yours onto the Jurgensens when see them.
George Allen: Say hi Sonny and them. They spend time in Florida where we live is not too far from where they lived.
Andy Ockershausen: I knew that in Mount Vernon.
George Allen: Mount Vernon area. Boy the price of that property there is really high. He had a good piece of property.
Andy Ockershausen: You got that. I remember your dad saw it and loved that he wanted something just like it.
George Allen: And if there’s a charity somebody said on a charity “What’s my favorite charity?” It is the Washington Redskins Charitable Foundation. They do a lot of good things. I don’t know when this will be airing but they’ll have something on Draft Day.
Andy Ockershausen: We’ll keep you updated.
George Allen: Go to Redskins.com. Charity.
Andy Ockershausen: Or we can do that for the Charity, George. You know that.
George Allen: Well they’re good for young people and a lot of our schools, and help … Susan and all of our kids have all helped out on the Fear2Freedom for women who have been assaulted –
Andy Ockershausen: Abused.
George Allen: And when they go through that there’s … It’s a kit that is put together to help them because of the gathering of evidence and so forth. So traumatic time. And the Redskins Charitable Foundation and the players actually help put these kits together. Rosemary Trible who is the First Lady of Christopher Newport University, who herself was a victim of assault, let’s just say, put this together and it is great for the awareness of sexual abuse and assault, for the players, and the player’s participating and putting together these kits as an example. And they have –
Andy Ockershausen: It’s a joint effort. It’ll have great effect that way.
George Allen: Yeah. Yeah. So the Redskins Charitable Foundation is really a good one with a lot of events from fashions shows to runs, to golf tournaments that –
Andy Ockershausen: They really try. I know that.
George Allen: Yeah and it’s helped in a lot of the schools particularly in the DC area.
Andy Ockershausen: Our Town George.
George Allen: And Our Town.
Andy Ockershausen: Thank you so much. This has been Andy Ockershausen. We’ve had a wonderful conversation with the Governor, Senator, Congressman, dear friend, George Allen.
Announcer: You’ve been listening to Our Town, season 2 presented by GEICO, our hometown favorite. With your host Andy Ockershausen. New Our Town episodes are released each Tuesday and Thursday. Drop us a line with your comments or suggestions. See us on Facebook, or visit our website at ourtowndc.com. Our special thanks to Ken Hunter, our technical director, and WMAL radio in Washington DC for hosting our podcast. And thanks to GEICO. 15 minutes can save you 15% or more on car insurance.
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